odd question: hardscaping/concrete/engineers?

[slowSSer]

ok story time:

The grandparents of our kiddo got us a "yard redo" for x-mas, and it's finally going. Let's put it this way- our yard is literally a blank slate right now- every thing's been removed and covered with an amazing amount of new, good soil.

i love the smell of manure in the morning

We're mainly doing grass for said grommet to have an area to play and doing separate planting beds, all at the same grade (no $$$ for raised beds- that'll be improvements down the line)

To separate these beds, I'm going to be installing a concrete "curb" to keep the grass out of the planting beds and vice-versa. Now, I've made forms before out of "bend board" and wooden stakes, but this leads to the questions:

for aesthetic purposes, the curb is going to be about 4" wide- enough to look elegant, not bulky, and have a place for a weeder/edger to roll against (one of those single-wheeled, single bladed deals)

a- how tall should the "curb" be? 8-12"???
b- how many cubic feet (approx) is a bag of concrete (obtainable at home despot/lowes)?
c- re-bar- yes or no? (I'm assuming yes- or that smaller wire stuff?)

also, anyone know of a place to get large landscaping rocks for (cough) "cheap" (cough) as, in, free (cough).

wow- i need a Ricola- my throat hurts.

[CalEpic]

I can tell you from experience if you don't have a concrete mixer, get one (cheap to rent) mixing by hand in a tub or wheelbarrow is a pita.

I made my forms 4" tall (about 1" above ground) with rebar. They were basically a mow/edge strip. I'm not sure if that's what you had in mind though.

I forget how many cu ft a 60 lb bag is but I'm sure you could google it. I'm too lazy at the moment.

C

[slowSSer]

Originally Posted by CalEpic

I can tell you from experience if you don't have a concrete mixer, get one (cheap to rent) mixing by hand in a tub or wheelbarrow is a pita.

I made my forms 4" tall (about 1" above ground) with rebar. They were basically a mow/edge strip. I'm not sure if that's what you had in mind though.

I forget how many cu ft a 60 lb bag is but I'm sure you could google it. I'm too lazy at the moment.

C

a mow/edge strip is exactly the right term.

onto goggle....

[Shu]

60# bag of cement mix is 1/2 cu ft

[BrewMaster]

I have this type of concrete edge in my backyard. mine is about 1" above the grass level, if that. It goes about 6" deep. If we ever had to redo these, I would go more like 10" deep. We have lots of spider grass or crab grass (not sure which) in our area and its roots have gone under the curb into a flower bed. it's annoying.

I think our curb has wire in it, not true rebar, but I could be wrong.

while we are on the subject, is it easy to mix and pour concrete? I have a 5' x 8' part of our back patio that I need to replace. I would like it to look sort of similar to the concrete around it. I have been intimidated of making a royal mess out of our back patio, so we still have a big hole in the concrete (from laying a new gas line to the BBQ).

[pitmang1]

For every ten feet in length, assuming you pour the mow curb 6 inches wide and six inches deep, you will need 5-60 lb bags or 4-80 lb bags. You could save a bag if you pour it 4 inches deep, but you will get cracks in a few years. You shouldn't need rebar or wire mesh for a mow curb unless you are planning on driving over it as long as your mix is right. If you don't mind carrying and bending rebar, it won't hurt. Free rocks, find a construction site with blasting. Something east of the 15 in Lake Elsinore should have extra rocks.

[Shu]

Mixing and pouring concrete is EASY...finishing is the harder part....especially if you want to match it to an existing finish...

[slowSSer]

Originally Posted by BrewMaster

while we are on the subject, is it easy to mix and pour concrete? I have a 5' x 8' part of our back patio that I need to replace. I would like it to look sort of similar to the concrete around it. I have been intimidated of making a royal mess out of our back patio, so we still have a big hole in the concrete (from laying a new gas line to the BBQ).

Originally Posted by Shu

Mixing and pouring concrete is EASY...finishing is the harder part....especially if you want to match it to an existing finish...

Shu is exactly correct here.

BrewMaster: how old is the existing concrete? does it look like it has sand in it?

if it has sand, that'll be likely your biggest color changer.

options that wouldn't be too bad:
fill said hole with new concrete.

do a thin layer of thin-set or aggregate-free concrete over the whole surface to create the uniform look.

OR

learn how to set tile and get some cheap tile for the whole thing.

Originally Posted by pitmang1

For every ten feet in length, assuming you pour the mow curb 6 inches wide and six inches deep, you will need 5-60 lb bags or 4-80 lb bags. You could save a bag if you pour it 4 inches deep, but you will get cracks in a few years. You shouldn't need rebar or wire mesh for a mow curb unless you are planning on driving over it as long as your mix is right. If you don't mind carrying and bending rebar, it won't hurt. Free rocks, find a construction site with blasting. Something east of the 15 in Lake Elsinore should have extra rocks.

thanks for the math. that helps quite a bit. the bags of concrete will be determined by what i can lift

[DBD]

... And if you want a few red bricks, about 20 or so, you can have the ones pilled in our back yard.

[slowSSer]

Originally Posted by DBD

... And if you want a few red bricks, about 20 or so, you can have the ones pilled in our back yard.

thanks, but no- we're getting away from the brick look and into the tropical look.

I'm planning on redoing our concrete deck with hexagonal terracotta pavers. palapa, baby!

also, why a redo on that? it's currently covered in rose colored 12" tiles. I wish i was kidding...

[53-12]

Landscape Architecture firm I work for always does a 6" concrete mowcurb w/ 1" above finish grade on the turf side and 2" above grade in shrub areas. #3 rebar set mid-depth, but that is usually on public projects, dont know that you really need it. Just score or sawcut every 5 feet or so.

[DBD]

Originally Posted by slowSSer

...
I'm planning on redoing our concrete deck with hexagonal terracotta pavers. palapa, baby! ...

I gave a shyte load of those away when we moved into our house. The previous owner was using it for who knows, under the lawn in the back. and also built a "planter" with them. I think I gave away about 150 of 'em.

[slowSSer]

Originally Posted by DBD

I gave a shyte load of those away when we moved into our house. The previous owner was using it for who knows, under the lawn in the back. and also built a "planter" with them. I think I gave away about 150 of 'em.

damn. i lose!

[BrewMaster]

Originally Posted by slowSSer

Shu is exactly correct here.

BrewMaster: how old is the existing concrete? does it look like it has sand in it?

if it has sand, that'll be likely your biggest color changer.

options that wouldn't be too bad:
fill said hole with new concrete.

do a thin layer of thin-set or aggregate-free concrete over the whole surface to create the uniform look.

OR

learn how to set tile and get some cheap tile for the whole thing.

the existing concrete is about 3 years old i think. it was put in by the previous owners, so i have no idea if it has sand in it or not.

i've thought about laying tile, but it would look funny given the location in the back yard.

[slowSSer]

Originally Posted by BrewMaster

the existing concrete is about 3 years old i think. it was put in by the previous owners, so i have no idea if it has sand in it or not.

i've thought about laying tile, but it would look funny given the location in the back yard.

if it's 3 years old, then you might be in luck. get a bag of quick-crete from home depot, mix a small batch, let it dry, and see if it's the same color.

[Shu]

I've found that the bags of cement mix are different color then truck mixes...and depending on how it's mixed it could take longer to cure(see the real color)

make sure to throw in a couple rebar dowels(each side) into the existing slab to prevent lifting/seperating of the pour back...

if you are worried about a mess from mixing pick up a 6mil roll of visqueen or blue tarp and lay it in the area you want to mix and close to your work area...

There are also "Short Load" companies that pull up to your house and mix right there...they have a chute that will pour into your wheel barrow and it monitors the amount of cement you use and they charge you accordingly...it would cost you a couple hundred for the 5'x8'x4" ....but will save you HOURS of mixing and the trip to Depot and humping around heavy bags of mix...etc