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PeterW · 06-03-2007, 03:07 PM

I want to move from hardtail to full suspension XC for some racing, endurance, recreation and xterra. I want a good climber for sure. I'm looking at the Ellsworth Truth, Rocky Mountain Element 70 and Turner Flux. Anyone have any words of wisdom? Is the extra money for the Truth worth it?

thanks
Peter

tkblazer · 06-03-2007, 03:34 PM

i heard Turners can climb over anthing

SAR_boats · 06-03-2007, 04:35 PM

All three are excellent choices for a high end production 4" travel bike

The Turner and the Ellsworth both employ a 4-bar(or in the case of the Turner a faux-bar) type suspension whereas the Rocky Mountain employs a single pivot type.
You will get different suspension characteristics from all three, but most notably from the Rocky Mountain, as compared to the other two.

The Rocky is going to give you a closer to linear suspension rate and the Ellsworth and Turner will provide a progressive to linear suspension curve with a sharp rise in shock resistance at the end of travel for a more "bottomless" feel. The Ellsworth has a more vertical wheel path than the other two, followed by the Turner, then the Rocky

The Ellsworth has asymetric chainstays which will give it a little more lateral stiffness in the suspension linkage.

The Rocky will probably be the lightest frame due to the lack of seat tube gusset and smaller suspension link. A difference of a few grams here and there

The Ellsworth has a higher bottom bracket than the Turner

Best advice is go ride an example of all three, isolate differences in componentry and fork and buy what rides the best.

As to whether the Ellsworth is worth the higher price point, It depends on component package, etc but it does have a few slight advantages over both the rocky and the turner

Pain Freak · 06-03-2007, 04:37 PM

Although the Truth may be the best climber, it is definitely not the best deal as the bikes are still having issues with cracking. And Ellsworth's warranty is not the greatest. If you're going to fork out that kind of money, I'd have to go with either the RM or the Flux. I' lean towards the Flux though as I'm very happy with all the Turners I've owned.

Just another Homer

genusmtbkr5 · 06-03-2007, 05:34 PM

Good info from SAR boats and Pain Freak. I agree that it would be best to demo all three. Tha Path has Ellsworth and Turners, not sure if any are available, and Adrenaline has the Rocky Mtn Element. Shops are near one another, both off the 55 fwy.

here are links to all 3 Frames/bikes:

The Path Bike Shop - Mountain Bike Full-suspension Frames - 2006 Turner Flux

The Path Bike Shop - Mountain Bike Full-suspension Frames - 2007 Ellsworth Truth

.: ROCKY MOUNTAIN BICYCLES :.#

My vote is for the Rocky Mountain Element, has nothing to do with the fact I ride a RM Elevation , but their customer service is excellent , you actually talk to a person. The Element feels right for me, nice geometry and light.

roadkillross · 06-03-2007, 06:14 PM

have u check out chumba racing??
CHUMBA Racing - Mountain Bikes

the XCL or evo

Dino Brown · 06-03-2007, 06:15 PM

All three are fine choices. As Genus pointed out, check out The Path for Ellsworth and Turner. I would give Adrenaline Bikes a call regarding the Rocky Mountain Element. They "may" even have a demo for you to try. I believe Jenson sells them too. Good luck.

Geronimo · 06-03-2007, 06:18 PM

another vote for the flux. The Truth, Flux, and Element are all four bar setups not DW or VPP. They're all similar in design, I vote Turner for customer service. It's nice nowing that you'll be taken care of without any BS.

guero · 06-03-2007, 06:21 PM

if you do go by the path, you may wanna check out a kona kikapu as well. not quite as much cheddar as the els or the turner, but is a pretty solid performing 4" travel bike. just go ride them all and see what feels best to YOU, afterall, you are the one who is gonna be riding/suffering on the bike. good luck and keep us posted.

CalEpic · 06-03-2007, 06:29 PM

I just sold a Flux and really liked it. btw Boats they're not DW link - Mine was Horst Link as are the Ellsworths - The new Turners are similar but are considered faux bars. All turner rockers are CNC machined as are the Ellsworths. The biggest advantage to the Turners IMO are the use of bushings in the pivots rather than bearings. That and Turner Customer Service is the benchmark for the industry. Check the reviews on mtbr. Ellsworth gets slayed. I'm guessing they've improved since then but it makes one wonder why they didn't step up to the plate in the first place.

tkblazer · 06-03-2007, 06:42 PM

friends don't let friends ride an ellsworthless

SAR_boats · 06-03-2007, 07:06 PM

Correction: The terms I used: dw-link and VPP are not correct.
The Ellsworth Truth uses a 4-bar linkage, The Turner a psudo 4-bar, and the Rocky Mountain uses a single pivot that uses a rising, not a linear spring rate.

I am sorry for the confusion

My plot to keep another recruit from joining the Turner army has failed.

I hang my head and I will perform seppuku as soon as I say goodbye to my wife and daughter for the shame I have brought onto my family

Dino Brown · 06-03-2007, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAR_boats

I hang my head and I will perform seppuku as soon as I say goodbye to my wife and daughter for the shame I have brought onto my family

There is no need to do that MY FRIEND!!! The shame will be lifted if you show up to the Fully Loop Ride with 1) FULL-FACE helmet 2) arm and elbow pads 3) A lucky rabbits foot!!!

SAR_boats · 06-03-2007, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dino Brown

There is no need to do that MY FRIEND!!! The shame will be lifted if you show up to the Fully Loop Ride with 1) FULL-FACE helmet 2) arm and elbow pads 3) A lucky rabbits foot!!!

Just think about all those bunnies on tiny crutches...

Oh, yeah, let me put on full armor and big helmet and go to the loop.

Is a launch suit and regular helmet ok?

Pain Freak · 06-03-2007, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAR_boats

Just think about all those bunnies on tiny crutches...

Oh, yeah, let me put on full armor and big helmet and go to the loop.

Is a launch suit and regular helmet ok?

Close enuf.

Hey bud, what happened to you last week?

dstepper · 06-03-2007, 08:29 PM

Buy the one that you will ride! Most bike stuff is hype anyway. There is a guy out in Phoenix that rides up Waterfall on National on a 1985 Brigestone.

Dean

SAR_boats · 06-03-2007, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pain Freak

Close enuf.

Hey bud, what happened to you last week?

I crashed early and went home.

Pain Freak · 06-03-2007, 08:36 PM

Sorry, didn't know. Lee & I waited quite a while after we crossed Euclid. We assumed you had a mechnical as other riders came up and no one said they'd seen you.

Sorry again bud and from now on we will have a designated sweeper.

SAR_boats · 06-03-2007, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pain Freak

Sorry, didn't know. Lee & I waited quite a while after we crossed Euclid. We assumed you had a mechnical as other riders came up and no one said they'd seen you.

Sorry again bud and from now on we will have a designated sweeper.

Jared rode back and someone told him I had ridden back out. I guess the word wasn't passed up.

I called Bret but it was a lot later, I had a spot of amnesia for a bit so I wasn't quite all there for a while, otherwise I would have called earlier to keep everyone in the know.

Mr. Lemons · 06-03-2007, 09:35 PM

Get the Rocky! I used to have an Truth, never really liked it. Have demoed a Element, LOVED it! Would get that one. Have not ridden a Flux. The Flux and the Element are both going to ride very similar when it comes to rear suspension designs. Both are singel pivots, a Faux bar really is a single pivot, and the Rocky is a modified single pivots. Its going to ride slightly different then say a Santa Cruz superlight single, as the axel paths are different. AND, the Element just won bike of the year in Mountain Bike Magazine, and just recieved a glowing review from MBA it that at all counts. Good luck!

06-03-2007, 03:07 PM	#1 (permalink)
PeterW Junior Member	Truth or Element or Flux? I want to move from hardtail to full suspension XC for some racing, endurance, recreation and xterra. I want a good climber for sure. I'm looking at the Ellsworth Truth, Rocky Mountain Element 70 and Turner Flux. Anyone have any words of wisdom? Is the extra money for the Truth worth it? thanks Peter

06-03-2007, 03:34 PM	#2 (permalink)
tkblazer Ruining It For The 95%	i heard Turners can climb over anthing __________________ Geronimo: I think I could probably spend all day exporing Dell Painfreak: Dstepper turned me on

06-03-2007, 04:35 PM	#3 (permalink)
SAR_boats Seen on 405 fwy	All three are excellent choices for a high end production 4" travel bike The Turner and the Ellsworth both employ a 4-bar(or in the case of the Turner a faux-bar) type suspension whereas the Rocky Mountain employs a single pivot type. You will get different suspension characteristics from all three, but most notably from the Rocky Mountain, as compared to the other two. The Rocky is going to give you a closer to linear suspension rate and the Ellsworth and Turner will provide a progressive to linear suspension curve with a sharp rise in shock resistance at the end of travel for a more "bottomless" feel. The Ellsworth has a more vertical wheel path than the other two, followed by the Turner, then the Rocky The Ellsworth has asymetric chainstays which will give it a little more lateral stiffness in the suspension linkage. The Rocky will probably be the lightest frame due to the lack of seat tube gusset and smaller suspension link. A difference of a few grams here and there The Ellsworth has a higher bottom bracket than the Turner Best advice is go ride an example of all three, isolate differences in componentry and fork and buy what rides the best. As to whether the Ellsworth is worth the higher price point, It depends on component package, etc but it does have a few slight advantages over both the rocky and the turner __________________ Last edited by SAR_boats; 06-03-2007 at 07:15 PM. Reason: I was confused and well medicated.

06-03-2007, 04:37 PM	#4 (permalink)
Pain Freak Peanut butta jelly	Although the Truth may be the best climber, it is definitely not the best deal as the bikes are still having issues with cracking. And Ellsworth's warranty is not the greatest. If you're going to fork out that kind of money, I'd have to go with either the RM or the Flux. I' lean towards the Flux though as I'm very happy with all the Turners I've owned. Just another Homer __________________ If quizzes are quizzical, what are tests? “Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body—but rather a skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, ‘Wow, what a ride!’ ” —anon.

06-03-2007, 05:34 PM	#5 (permalink)
genusmtbkr5 Single Track Mind	Good info from SAR boats and Pain Freak. I agree that it would be best to demo all three. Tha Path has Ellsworth and Turners, not sure if any are available, and Adrenaline has the Rocky Mtn Element. Shops are near one another, both off the 55 fwy. here are links to all 3 Frames/bikes: The Path Bike Shop - Mountain Bike Full-suspension Frames - 2006 Turner Flux The Path Bike Shop - Mountain Bike Full-suspension Frames - 2007 Ellsworth Truth .: ROCKY MOUNTAIN BICYCLES :.# My vote is for the Rocky Mountain Element, has nothing to do with the fact I ride a RM Elevation , but their customer service is excellent , you actually talk to a person. The Element feels right for me, nice geometry and light. __________________ Gene"GuidesNewWarriors" *http://www.warriorssociety.org/* *http://www.sharemtb.com/*

06-03-2007, 06:14 PM	#6 (permalink)
roadkillross Throw some Dee's on it	have u check out chumba racing?? CHUMBA Racing - Mountain Bikes the XCL or evo __________________ Offroadie-"I ride a fixed gear, but I'm no hipster." dirttorpedo- "i like the runs..........:

06-03-2007, 06:15 PM	#7 (permalink)
Dino Brown Sir Smack-Alot	All three are fine choices. As Genus pointed out, check out The Path for Ellsworth and Turner. I would give Adrenaline Bikes a call regarding the Rocky Mountain Element. They "may" even have a demo for you to try. I believe Jenson sells them too. Good luck.

06-03-2007, 06:18 PM	#8 (permalink)
Geronimo Bill would poach it	another vote for the flux. The Truth, Flux, and Element are all four bar setups not DW or VPP. They're all similar in design, I vote Turner for customer service. It's nice nowing that you'll be taken care of without any BS.

06-03-2007, 06:21 PM	#9 (permalink)
guero dont be selfish!	if you do go by the path, you may wanna check out a kona kikapu as well. not quite as much cheddar as the els or the turner, but is a pretty solid performing 4" travel bike. just go ride them all and see what feels best to YOU, afterall, you are the one who is gonna be riding/suffering on the bike. good luck and keep us posted. __________________ tkblazer: pump and dump. pho'd up: plan on having them strap on... pain freak: We do it almost every day at work.

06-03-2007, 06:29 PM	#10 (permalink)
CalEpic STR Moderator	I just sold a Flux and really liked it. btw Boats they're not DW link - Mine was Horst Link as are the Ellsworths - The new Turners are similar but are considered faux bars. All turner rockers are CNC machined as are the Ellsworths. The biggest advantage to the Turners IMO are the use of bushings in the pivots rather than bearings. That and Turner Customer Service is the benchmark for the industry. Check the reviews on mtbr. Ellsworth gets slayed. I'm guessing they've improved since then but it makes one wonder why they didn't step up to the plate in the first place.

06-03-2007, 06:42 PM	#11 (permalink)
tkblazer Ruining It For The 95%	friends don't let friends ride an ellsworthless __________________ Geronimo: I think I could probably spend all day exporing Dell Painfreak: Dstepper turned me on

06-03-2007, 07:06 PM	#12 (permalink)
SAR_boats Seen on 405 fwy	Correction: The terms I used: dw-link and VPP are not correct. The Ellsworth Truth uses a 4-bar linkage, The Turner a psudo 4-bar, and the Rocky Mountain uses a single pivot that uses a rising, not a linear spring rate. I am sorry for the confusion My plot to keep another recruit from joining the Turner army has failed. I hang my head and I will perform seppuku as soon as I say goodbye to my wife and daughter for the shame I have brought onto my family __________________

06-03-2007, 08:29 PM	#16 (permalink)
dstepper Over the Hill	Buy the one that you will ride! Most bike stuff is hype anyway. There is a guy out in Phoenix that rides up Waterfall on National on a 1985 Brigestone. Dean __________________ If I'm not lost or getting bushwacked, the trail was too easy. Prescott Valley Houses The Path

06-03-2007, 08:36 PM	#18 (permalink)
Pain Freak Peanut butta jelly	Sorry, didn't know. Lee & I waited quite a while after we crossed Euclid. We assumed you had a mechnical as other riders came up and no one said they'd seen you. Sorry again bud and from now on we will have a designated sweeper. __________________ If quizzes are quizzical, what are tests? “Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body—but rather a skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, ‘Wow, what a ride!’ ” —anon.

06-03-2007, 09:35 PM	#20 (permalink)
Mr. Lemons Junior Member	Rocky! Get the Rocky! I used to have an Truth, never really liked it. Have demoed a Element, LOVED it! Would get that one. Have not ridden a Flux. The Flux and the Element are both going to ride very similar when it comes to rear suspension designs. Both are singel pivots, a Faux bar really is a single pivot, and the Rocky is a modified single pivots. Its going to ride slightly different then say a Santa Cruz superlight single, as the axel paths are different. AND, the Element just won bike of the year in Mountain Bike Magazine, and just recieved a glowing review from MBA it that at all counts. Good luck!

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