MT. Wilson Shuttle service

[shuttlerun]

Fellow riders..............what'z up! Im new to this website and just wanna introduce myself. My name is Dave and I run the shuttle van on weekends at JPL. It's a 15 passenger van with a 15 bike trailer. Every weekend at 6am & 7:30am I take riders up to the Mt.Lowe trail from the JPL parking lot . It's a $7.00 donation and all are welcomed. It's on a trail basis right now in order to see if it justifies as a full business venture. It has become more & more popular over the last weeks, but still needs all your support. I look forward to riding with all of you. Thank you & special thanks to Happy for the 411.

[JoeTruth]

Originally Posted by shuttlerun

Fellow riders..............what'z up! Im new to this website and just wanna introduce myself. My name is Dave and I run the shuttle van on weekends at JPL. It's a 15 passenger van with a 15 bike trailer. Every weekend at 6am & 7:30am I take riders up to the Mt.Lowe trail from the JPL parking lot . It's a $7.00 donation and all are welcomed. It's on a trail basis right now in order to see if it justifies as a full business venture. It has become more & more popular over the last weeks, but still needs all your support. I look forward to riding with all of you. Thank you & special thanks to Happy for the 411.

[SIZE=3]Sounds like fun! Call me paranoid but do you have commercial liability insurance? I'd hate to be involved in a misfortune then find out you're running your operation without proper or sufficient commercial liability insurance. Also, I'm assuming you have a permit from The US Forest Service to provide such services, right?



[/SIZE]

[shuttlerun]

Your not paranoid, it's good to be cautious. Iam commercially liscensed with a passenger endorsement and currently shopping for commercial liabilty insurance. However, since its not a business yet, I have not obtained my TCP permit either. Both are very expensive and Im not sure this venture would be profitable enough to justify a business. According to the Forestry Dept. it has nothing to do with them. Im only using Hwy 2, not the forest itself. So, for now it's just a social event for fun. Any funds received go directly back into the tank.

[stinkyrider]

I'd throw down 7 big ones for a shuttle.

[Pain Freak]

Bummer about the hours as our group looks to be going off around 8 and if it's a typical large group it'll be more like 8:30.

[mazer75]

Originally Posted by Pain Freak

Bummer about the hours as our group looks to be going off around 8 and if it's a typical large group it'll be more like 8:30.

Do you think you could provide coverage for this event?

Mt. Wilson Shuttle run

You could put me down for $7 plus as $3 tip!

[Happy_Gilmore]

Originally Posted by stinkyrider

I'd throw down 7 big ones for a shuttle.

$7 is cheap for days riding, Snow Summit = $20, Mammoth = $30

[mottmcfly]

Originally Posted by mazer75

Do you think you could provide coverage for this event?

Mt. Wilson Shuttle run

You could put me down for $7 plus as $3 tip!

Good point. We have 18 confirmed riders for around 8:30am. I am sure many would love a lift.

Any chance of changing your hours?

Thanks,

mott

[shuttlerun]

Big thanks to all the riders who came out today. Sorry I couldn't get the entire group up. Next time, just give me a heads up and I'll work with your schedule.

[mottmcfly]

Originally Posted by shuttlerun

Big thanks to all the riders who came out today. Sorry I couldn't get the entire group up. Next time, just give me a heads up and I'll work with your schedule.

Will do. The riders that went up with you had nothing but good things to say.

[stinkyrider]

Originally Posted by shuttlerun

Big thanks to all the riders who came out today. Sorry I couldn't get the entire group up. Next time, just give me a heads up and I'll work with your schedule.

Shuttlerun, that is an awesome shuttle service you got there. Seriously, top notch at a raging bargain. Thanks for guiding us down the mountain safely. Had a blast riding with you bro. Thanks for waiting for my slow ass. Can't wait to do it again.

Start up that business and you've got $7 of mine, guaranteed.

[dstepper]

Originally Posted by shuttlerun

Fellow riders..............what'z up! Im new to this website and just wanna introduce myself. My name is Dave and I run the shuttle van on weekends at JPL. It's a 15 passenger van with a 15 bike trailer. Every weekend at 6am & 7:30am I take riders up to the Mt.Lowe trail from the JPL parking lot . It's a $7.00 donation and all are welcomed. It's on a trail basis right now in order to see if it justifies as a full business venture. It has become more & more popular over the last weeks, but still needs all your support. I look forward to riding with all of you. Thank you & special thanks to Happy for the 411.

Some of my thoughts on the shuttle service:

First off I am still open to the idea but I have some concerns. The trails on Mt. Wilson are very special and are one of the reasons I have not moved on to Arizona yet. First off, I hope that you do not shuttle any minors up the mountain, parents have a nasty habit of blaming others when their kids do something stupid. I am mainly concerned that the shuttle will put too many people on the trails and especially on “big bikes”.

“Yes” it would be great and make life very easy. But the true is: unlike some downhills…a shuttle is not necessary to enjoy those trails. The beauty of Mt. Wilson is you don’t have to climb the singletrack to get up. The downhills are easily broke into sections. Start with Brown Mt. and come down El Prieto. When you become a stronger climber do Mt Lowe Fireroad to Sunset...next to Middle Merrill…then up to Upper Merrill, until you can climb to the top and come down any of the other trails that drop off the top.

I will concede that my concerns/fears are self-centered and self-serving. If I trusted all mountain bikers to do the right things I would be totally onboard and support your venture…but I don’t. I don’t want to rain on your parade but it this time I have a hard time supporting it.

[ka0t1c07]

Steppie. I think the traffic will be the same as usual. maybe a bit more then normal. The shuttle service is just there to save us time from having to drive back up to pick up the cars. I doubt it will attract a greater amount of riders then the usual self shuttling rides. There are so many other trails around here, so there will be plenty of singletracks for everyone. Well, lets see how it goes. Maybe we can also get shuttling service for other jewels in So. Cal.

Tin

[mottmcfly]

Originally Posted by dstepper

Some of my thoughts on the shuttle service:

First off I am still open to the idea but I have some concerns. The trails on Mt. Wilson are very special and are one of the reasons I have not moved on to Arizona yet. First off, I hope that you do not shuttle any minors up the mountain, parents have a nasty habit of blaming others when their kids do something stupid. I am mainly concerned that the shuttle will put too many people on the trails and especially on “big bikes”.

“Yes” it would be great and make life very easy. But the true is: unlike some downhills…a shuttle is not necessary to enjoy those trails. The beauty of Mt. Wilson is you don’t have to climb the singletrack to get up. The downhills are easily broke into sections. Start with Brown Mt. and come down El Prieto. When you become a stronger climber do Mt Lowe Fireroad to Sunset...next to Middle Merrill…then up to Upper Merrill, until you can climb to the top and come down any of the other trails that drop off the top.

I will concede that my concerns/fears are self-centered and self-serving. If I trusted all mountain bikers to do the right things I would be totally onboard and support your venture…but I don’t. I don’t want to rain on your parade but it this time I have a hard time supporting it.

While I share your concerns, some of us like to use a shuttle and ride "big bikes". I would hope that I am not labeled just because my main ride is 45lbs. I do my utmost to preserve our access to our trails. Other than Dino, no one is more hiker friendly than I.

My hopes are that most riders will be responsible whether riding light or heavy bikes. A jerk can take the shuttle or ride up and have the same effect on the way down.

As far as minors are concerned I agree completely.

Mott

[dstepper]

Originally Posted by mottmcfly

While I share your concerns, some of us like to use a shuttle and ride "big bikes". I would hope that I am not labeled just because my main ride is 45lbs. I do my utmost to preserve our access to our trails. Other than Dino, no one is more hiker friendly than I.

My hopes are that most riders will be responsible whether riding light or heavy bikes. A jerk can take the shuttle or ride up and have the same effect on the way down.

As far as minors are concerned I agree completely.

Mott

Big Bikes have there place, IMO, just not on the same trails as hikers. And I do not share you "hopes" that people will be responsible. Please no one take what I say personally...it is not address to anyone person, just a general statement.

[Dino Brown]

Originally Posted by ka0t1c07

Steppie. I think the traffic will be the same as usual. maybe a bit more then normal.......I doubt it will attract a greater amount of riders then the usual self shuttling rides. There are so many other trails around here, so there will be plenty of singletracks for everyone. Well, lets see how it goes. Maybe we can also get shuttling service for other jewels in So. Cal.
Tin

Thanks for the input Tin! All I can say is I HOPE you are correct. While I do support the idea behind the shuttle service, I firmly believe it will attract more riders. Ask the people who rode today. Many said they would be willing to pay $20 for the shuttle.

Soo may other trails (that are DH friendly)? Not so sure. I really don't like Fontana. Big Bear is closed! Mt. Baldy That never happened. San Juan is a freeway! Mammoth "ain't" that close! Many of the "other" trails are either short or one is forced to push for a long time!

What really scares me are the BONEHEADS who have no respect for themselves, the safety of others or the mountain! Did you know some of those guys (many who are cool people) complete the trail in a little over an hour? That is scary fast!

On today's ride, there was a lady-hiker who did not appreciate mountain bikers. She was counting the number of riders in our group! I was 13! Ya' know how I know? Because SHE told me so!!!

Just imagine how happy she would be if a shuttle dropped 15 bikers off every hour?

Last thing- I spoke with (2) hikers today who told me, "they no longer hike on weekends.." you know the reason!

Tin- Your input was most appreciated. Hope our exchanges lead to something positive...

P.S.- If others were 1/2 the gentleman MOTT is on the trail... Let's just say, we would not be having this discussion!

P.P.S.- Best wishes to the shuttle guy! May sound hypocritical- I may indeed catch a ride with you someday!

[jfromlv]

My biggest concern would be the legality of running a shuttle service up Angeles Crest. If you go super early on the weekends, it cuts down on the # of hikers as well.
As for the big bikes on the same trails as hikers, that's a hard one. I will admit that I have taken part in building some trails that are, shall we say, "off-chutes" of other trails, only to have hikers begin to use these as primary hiking trails, claiming that the trails have existed for years. I don't argue with them, I do however, continue to ride the big bike on trails with hikers, simply because there aren't always other options. Trail etiquette is especially important to remember on any of our local trails, after all, there are 10 million people living in LA county alone!

[dstepper]

One of the reason I chose to pedal up the hill is to save time. If I don't have to go get a car at the end of the ride I may choice the shuttle option.

Dean

[thephat]

I have been toying with doing the same thing (not at Willson) for over 5 years. The concerns discussed in this thread (mostly what Steppie said) have been the primary deterant for me.

Willson seems like an esp tuff plaace to pull this off. When I shuttled Mt Willson, it was a chore being responsible and freindly with the hikers. Some of the hikers remained hostile even after I stopped well in front of them, and tried to make nice. Most were very nice after they saw our nature.

I do not think insurance is a problem. I think folks would pay the price.

It seems like a potentailly fun business if you can work out the kinks.

[JoeTruth]

Originally Posted by dstepper

Some of my thoughts on the shuttle service:

First off I am still open to the idea but I have some concerns. The trails on Mt. Wilson are very special and are one of the reasons I have not moved on to Arizona yet. First off, I hope that you do not shuttle any minors up the mountain, parents have a nasty habit of blaming others when their kids do something stupid. I am mainly concerned that the shuttle will put too many people on the trails and especially on “big bikes”.

“Yes” it would be great and make life very easy. But the true is: unlike some downhills…a shuttle is not necessary to enjoy those trails. The beauty of Mt. Wilson is you don’t have to climb the singletrack to get up. The downhills are easily broke into sections. Start with Brown Mt. and come down El Prieto. When you become a stronger climber do Mt Lowe Fireroad to Sunset...next to Middle Merrill…then up to Upper Merrill, until you can climb to the top and come down any of the other trails that drop off the top.

I will concede that my concerns/fears are self-centered and self-serving. If I trusted all mountain bikers to do the right things I would be totally onboard and support your venture…but I don’t. I don’t want to rain on your parade but it this time I have a hard time supporting it.

Living in Altadena for the bulk of my life and mtb'ing since the mid 90's, I've seen shuttle services come and go. For most part, they get shut down as most don't have a livery license, which you need in order to operate legally. He's right, this is not US Forestry's jurisdiction but it does have their interest. What they usually do is monitor the lot and radio the highway patrol who will be on the lookout for such vehicles and pull them over. I've seen it happen several times.

I was originally going to do this ride, thinking it was on Friday. Once I realized it was on a Saturday, I bailed. I don't need to add fuel to the fire and one less rider coming down the mountain always helps in the eyes of observers and rangers.

I'm sure the shuttle guy is a good guy and means very well but I don't think he and most realize the consequences and repercussions for such actions. Most think it's a given birth right that cyclist have to these trails and access to them. I beg to differ and consider it a HUGE privilege. Why we take it for granted and ruin an amazing thing is what I constantly struggle with. As it is, when I see the condition of the trails and all the shortcuts created (mostly on Sunset) in the past 7-10 years, it's very disheartening. I remember a time (on weekends no less) where you'd be up there and would hardly encounter another soul. When you did, it was usually a hiker and they were very kind and friendly. Now, you have to mentally be prepared for someone rushing you and yelling out "on your left" as if we're in a race in Big Bear or deal with disgusted, jaded and frightened hikers who are far too eager to give you an ear full all day long. I'm not bitter, I'm just a little frustrated with no relieve in sight as I don't see these problems getting better before they get worse. Needless to say, such services only perpetuate such concerns and issues.