STR | SocalTrailRiders.org

DDB@OCR

[FONT=System][SIZE=3]I was out pedaling around yesterday afternoon doing my usual thing. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=System][SIZE=3]Came across Them photographing drop-in spots, trail intersections et. al. I asked who They were with. They told me as we began to walk and chat. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=System][SIZE=3]I could tell my presence, as a cyclist, was upsetting Them- if They were not already. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=System][SIZE=3]They began to rant and get worked up about bikers this, bikers that. Pretty much painting a pretty grim picture of off-road cyclists in general. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=System][SIZE=3]Maintenance issues came up as well as ‘destruction’ of habitat, native plants etc. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=System][SIZE=3]They also posed the question to me “what do you plan to do about it, as this must STOP!” - totally Claiming the area! …lmfao![/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=System][SIZE=3]I was actually rocked a little by this. I don’t put up well with entitled elitist’s spewing agenda’s overflowing with hate. I usually tell them to step off and get out of my face. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=System][SIZE=3]But I’m recognized where I ride here. I gotta take the hi-road. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=System][SIZE=3]So I mentioned the fact many cyclists are involved with their community, maintaining the trails we all use and participate in major re-vegetation projects here and elsewhere. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=System][SIZE=3]Not good enough. Seems to Them the cycling community is out to destroy the planet. Horses, hikers, dogs, DEVOLOPERS etc- all not factors, just bikes. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=System][SIZE=3]The fact all users create impact, different impact, was not a consideration. Nor was the fact steel-shod horses can weigh 50 times more than rubber wheeled bikes and can devastate a trail in one pass.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=System][SIZE=3]So I basked in Their hate for a few minutes before thanking (for what, I don’t know) Them and pedaling off, as They continued to snap pics of me and the trail just as a fevered prosecutor would gathering evidence on the trail of a serial killer. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=System][SIZE=3]I’m starting to take this stuff personally. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=System][SIZE=3]I, and others, have been a volunteer since 1993. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=System][SIZE=3]We’ve hauled peeps like this out of the wilderness, doing SAR on dirt bikes after they get lost, stuck or dead for one reason or another. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=System][SIZE=3]We’ve also swung tons of steel building and maintaining trails. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=System][SIZE=3]We’ve done all this and much, much more for……FREE. Not as a living, but as a way of life. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=System][SIZE=3]I’ve never seen Them out there. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=System][SIZE=3]I seriously doubt They have ever been on the business end of a McCloud, Pulaski, pick, chainsaw, rope, rescue chopper or stood up to flames, heat, dust and falling rock. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=System][SIZE=3]How it is They lay Claims to places I/We frequent and maintain with the sweat of our brow is completely beyond me. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=System][SIZE=3]Some folks simply have an agenda and the thing that really irks me is Their POV is carrying weight. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=System][SIZE=3]The Uptight Armchair Armada is growing, again. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=System][SIZE=3]I always try to take to the hi-road and avoid confrontation. But it seems They are feeling more and more empowered and entitled. They have no problem forcing Their ‘opinion’ on others- and Us, while ignoring the facts. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=System][SIZE=3]I have no room in my little world for haters like this. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=System][SIZE=3]They do not have the right to ‘claim’ an area I/We work on and maintain. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=System][SIZE=3]I and many, many others have paid for, and much more importantly, earned the right with our sweat to be there doing what we love. (I’m also pretty tempted to start pointing this out with my finger in Their chests and letting Them know what’s really up.) [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=System][SIZE=3]But They are having none of it. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=System][SIZE=3]They want bikes gone- period. All of them. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=System][SIZE=3]They could not care less what happens after that. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=System][SIZE=3]They argue we are destroying habitat. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=System][SIZE=3]I disagree- we are protecting it, through multiple-use, as so long as there are trails, there are no houses. Wildlife can thrive and lots of furry creatures abound. Doubt it? Take a walk. Look around. Rodents, 'coons, deer etc- they all could not care less about bikes. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=System][SIZE=3]And case in point is a slide-zone for the most part. Nothing there is ‘native’. It’s all transient as it did not exist until recently. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=System][SIZE=3]But They continue to Hate, from a lofty position, in a big soft chair, spreading the Word on their computers from custom tract-homes on a once pristine hillside, with two Volvo’s in the drive (not that that matters, They are exempt). [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=System][SIZE=3]And for what. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=System][SIZE=3]To jealously stop others from enjoying something they love, something They can’t or won’t do. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=System][SIZE=3]Riding off-road. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=System][SIZE=3]We have as much right to be there as they do- even more. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=System][SIZE=3]Until I see Them put down the Hate Cup and pick up a shovel, They are no longer getting respect from me. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=System][/FONT]
[FONT=System][SIZE=3]Their voices are being heard, why not ours? [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=System][SIZE=3]The only way They can win, is for Us to do nothing. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=System][SIZE=3]It’s Us vs. Them. [/SIZE][/FONT]

guero

those people you speak of remind me of a couple people here at work...i truly believe they are addicted to, or get off on conflict. they live for it, they find it in anything and everything. i can't imagine how miserable those people must be on the inside.

DownhillWebKook

I transitioned to mountain biking from skateboarding. I spent 15 years in the sport at a time when skateboarding was looked at as a degenerate sub-culture oriented lifestyle of subversiveness and vandalism. It was us against them every single day. You'd get kicked out of spots all the time or fined or have your board taken from you by authorities. Occasionally, people would try to physically assault you. Granted, we were riding in their backyard swimming pools sometime.

So, why is Tony Hawk now a household name? Why are there skateparks that I would have killed for back then all over the place now?

I think it has a lot to do with the aggressive nature of the people engaged in the sport. We were not always polite and we never gave up ever. We were also very ingenious. If people put up barriers or things to stop us, we would just adapt and use them as part of the stunt. I think this frustrated everyone trying to hold the sport down.

So how did skateboarding (and other similar sports) become so mainstream and economically viable? I think we need to look at mountain biking in a similar way and be a little more aggressive. Good manners will never win a war, but it doesn't mean you have to be a savage either. I think we need some fresh tactics, guys and gals.

foofighter

we get THEM as well when we apply for a cell site permit they come out in droves complaining of these sites radiating them and their children when during the course of their protest their cell phone rings...

ApexMan

Their mind is small to cause such hate, if they had ever taken in the views We've seen they would know that the bigger picture is that the rocks We and Them tread upon will be here long after we've dispeared.

stinkyrider

Why not invite as many as these crazy groups as we can on trail clean-ups? This might have a possitive effect on their perception of mountain bikers. It's hard to hate someone that is helping.

jcbikeski

I've been lucky to not run into Them so I suspect it's more a problem in certain areas (maybe with a higher concentration of Us and Them in the same area).

Some folks will always be angry of everything. Others are rightfully angry from the action of a few and their ignorance makes them generalize to a whole group. It's true that a few riders will barrel down a trail without slowing for (or even seeing) hikers. A few others will cut new trails or ride illegal trails which does impact the environment a lot. But most respect both nature and the right of non-riders to enjoy a day out without fear and shock of a rider blazing down right past them. The best I can do is be as extra nice as I can and hope that some of Them will start to notice that it's not ALL riders that are a problem.

Kid A

received this timely e-mail from IMBA...
also on related topic F them

END SINGLETRACK PROHIBITION:
SUPPORT THE IMBA LEGAL FUND!

Dear Adam,
Despite the progress IMBA has made over the last 19 years, a new and serious threat has erupted. Now, alarming singletrack prohibitions threaten to oust mountain bikers from coveted trails and classic riding areas; essentially relegating us to roads and motorized routes.
That's why I'm asking you to donate to IMBA's Legal Fund. Contributors of $35 or more will receive IMBA's solid-rubber Iconic Coaster Set.
Your donation will help defend against lawsuits and policies that expel riders from singletrack and tackle these crucial projects:

Treat mountain bikers as quiet, healthy recreationalists -- not as second class trail users.
Protect public lands with policies mountain bikers can support and enjoy.
Represent mountain bikers in the halls of Congress
Defend ill-found claims against mountain bikers.

Please donate now or read more about the Legal Fund.
As I write you, singletrack prohibitions are cascading from the slopes of the Rockies toward each coast. Bike restrictions loom over the Continental Divide Trail and anti-bike extremists in Montana are suing the Forest Service to kick mountain bikers off trails.
Discriminatory precedents are affecting local trails too. Riders have been kicked off all singletrack at Valley Forge Park in Pennsylvania. IMBA's network is addressing miles of singletrack bans in California, Illinois, New Jersey, North Carolina, Minnesota and Texas. Numerous cases like these desperately need your support and IMBA's forceful intervention.
Preventing systematic closures takes preparation and money. Please donate to the Legal Fund today so IMBA's rapid response team is ready to act when trails are threatened near Santa Ana.
Thanks for your continuing generosity,
Drew Vankat
IMBA Policy Analyst
P.S. We need to strengthen our voice and broaden our support. After making a tax-deductible gift today, please encourage your riding partners, friends and employers to match your donation.

[SIZE=3][SIZE=5]Your Free Gift[/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=5]

[/SIZE]
Contribute $35 or more to receive your solid-rubber Iconic Coaster Set.

[SIZE=3][SIZE=5]3 Minutes to End Singletrack Prohibition[/SIZE][/SIZE]

Take Action:
Submit your official support for bikes on the Continental Divide Trail.
(60 seconds)
Donate to the Legal Fund:
Help defend against lawsuits and policies that banish mountain bikers from singletrack.
(90 seconds)
Spread the Word:
Ask your friends and riding partners to echo your voice and match your donation.
(30 seconds)

DDB@OCR

Very cool.

I'm signing on.

Gonna print up the links and pass 'em around as well.

EMrider

Spend a few years riding dirtbikes and you'll understand THEM far better than you ever thought possible. Mountain bikers are considered saints compared to motos by the enviro closure nuts.

I've given up on trying to reason with them. Ain't gonna happen. The divisions are too deep and IMHO their zeal for "the cause" typically leaves no room for compromise. I'm always polite and ride under full control. But then again, I've never had one get in my face on the trail. Should that ever happen, it would go ugly very fast.

My choice is to actively support organizations that protect trail access for two-wheeled users, and others who prefer to recreate in other ways than on foot.

In the end, this is a political battle. Those in the "broad and equal access" camp include many forms of recreation and have the numbers to win. They lack the political organization and experience, but that is rapidly changing.

Rob

DDB@OCR

Copy that EM.

I've hauled out/done first aid on peeps from/in the back-country doing my volunteer thing, on my two-stroke, and they didn't seem to mind a dirt-bike on 'Their' trails then, at that moment....

Go figure.

stinkyrider

Quote:

Originally Posted by EMrider

Spend a few years riding dirtbikes and you'll understand THEM far better than you ever thought possible. Mountain bikers are considered saints compared to motos by the enviro closure nuts.

I've given up on trying to reason with them. Ain't gonna happen. The divisions are too deep and IMHO their zeal for "the cause" typically leaves no room for compromise. I'm always polite and ride under full control. But then again, I've never had one get in my face on the trail. Should that ever happen, it would go ugly very fast.

My choice is to actively support organizations that protect trail access for two-wheeled users, and others who prefer to recreate in other ways than on foot.

In the end, this is a political battle. Those in the "broad and equal access" camp include many forms of recreation and have the numbers to win. They lack the political organization and experience, but that is rapidly changing.

Rob

Let's start a political caucus for sane people. The sane and reasonable people need to consolidate in order to politically combat these unrealistic nutjobs.

stinkyrider

I think George Carlin sums it pretty well.

Pain Freak

Believe me I understand the need to combat Them. There is no reasoning with Them, it's their way or no way. I'll admit it, I was a full fledged member for many years and went along with most things. Looking back I see how I was foolish not to read up on it more before I sided with Them. I finally had enough when they started to tell me how to vote, it wasn't a suggestion, it was an outright demand. I left Them and found mtb'ing a few years later. If you have ever attended their meetings you'll see some of the most off balanced people you'll ever meet. They seriously believe the open lands should be reserved for Them and Them alone.

Smirnus

Who's going the make the bumper stickers? "At least my bike doesn't need a diaper"

KBL

I work in the off-road industry (trucks, Jeeps, pre-runners, etc.) and also have ridden dirt bikes in the past, so I've seen plenty of hate coming from THEM over the years. I've yet to see any of THEM out picking up trash or doing real improvements out on the trails that they claim to love so much. THEY seem to love lawsuits more than THEY love the outdoors. Actually, THEY don't love the outdoors...THEY just enjoy pushing other people around in the name of the outdoors.

I think just being nice and proving that we are good citizens will only go so far. It's true that we should be nice to other users when we're out on the trails. We need to band together and legislatively defend our status as legitimate trail users and good citizens. This is a good thread...I'm going to sign up with IMBA.

I should also add that I've seen mountain bikers act like self-righteous a$$hats as well. I have helped out with the Scenic Mt. Lowe Historic Railway Committee--the people who have placed the interpretive signs and done restoration work on the historic sites at Mt. Lowe. If you've ridden there, you might agree with me that the Mt. Lowe trails are some of the best singletracks in So. Cal. Each year, the Mt. Lowe Committee has a picnic at the Mt. Lowe campground, which is also the site of the Alpine Tavern. Members of the Mt. Lowe Committee drive up to the campground for this picnic. One year, our caravan came upon a group of mountain bikers during the drive to the campground. They were outraged that we were there in cars and trucks. One of them burst out "You guys are F-ing up the place!" This jackass spouted off without considering who might be in the cars and trucks, and he also spouted off without considering that many of the picnic attendees were older people who weren't strong enough to have hiked/biked to the campground. I wanted to shove him over the side for making mountain bikers look like judgemental hotheads. If you're riding at Mt. Lowe on the first weekend in December and you see a bunch of people in cars PLEASE BE NICE!

That's my rant. Thanks for reading.

Innes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kid A

received this timely e-mail from IMBA...
also on related topic F them

END SINGLETRACK PROHIBITION:
SUPPORT THE IMBA LEGAL FUND!

Dear Adam,
Despite the progress IMBA has made over the last 19 years, a new and serious threat has erupted. Now, alarming singletrack prohibitions threaten to oust mountain bikers from coveted trails and classic riding areas; essentially relegating us to roads and motorized routes.
That's why I'm asking you to donate to IMBA's Legal Fund. Contributors of $35 or more will receive IMBA's solid-rubber Iconic Coaster Set.
Your donation will help defend against lawsuits and policies that expel riders from singletrack and tackle these crucial projects:

Treat mountain bikers as quiet, healthy recreationalists -- not as second class trail users.
Protect public lands with policies mountain bikers can support and enjoy.
Represent mountain bikers in the halls of Congress
Defend ill-found claims against mountain bikers.

Please donate now or read more about the Legal Fund.
As I write you, singletrack prohibitions are cascading from the slopes of the Rockies toward each coast. Bike restrictions loom over the Continental Divide Trail and anti-bike extremists in Montana are suing the Forest Service to kick mountain bikers off trails.
Discriminatory precedents are affecting local trails too. Riders have been kicked off all singletrack at Valley Forge Park in Pennsylvania. IMBA's network is addressing miles of singletrack bans in California, Illinois, New Jersey, North Carolina, Minnesota and Texas. Numerous cases like these desperately need your support and IMBA's forceful intervention.
Preventing systematic closures takes preparation and money. Please donate to the Legal Fund today so IMBA's rapid response team is ready to act when trails are threatened near Santa Ana.
Thanks for your continuing generosity,
Drew Vankat
IMBA Policy Analyst
P.S. We need to strengthen our voice and broaden our support. After making a tax-deductible gift today, please encourage your riding partners, friends and employers to match your donation.

[SIZE=3][SIZE=5]Your Free Gift[/SIZE][/SIZE]


DDB@OCR has-been onna hardtail	Us vs. Them. [FONT=System][SIZE=3]I was out pedaling around yesterday afternoon doing my usual thing. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]Came across Them photographing drop-in spots, trail intersections et. al. I asked who They were with. They told me as we began to walk and chat. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]I could tell my presence, as a cyclist, was upsetting Them- if They were not already. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]They began to rant and get worked up about bikers this, bikers that. Pretty much painting a pretty grim picture of off-road cyclists in general. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]Maintenance issues came up as well as ‘destruction’ of habitat, native plants etc. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]They also posed the question to me “what do you plan to do about it, as this must STOP!” - totally Claiming the area! …lmfao![/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]I was actually rocked a little by this. I don’t put up well with entitled elitist’s spewing agenda’s overflowing with hate. I usually tell them to step off and get out of my face. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]But I’m recognized where I ride here. I gotta take the hi-road. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]So I mentioned the fact many cyclists are involved with their community, maintaining the trails we all use and participate in major re-vegetation projects here and elsewhere. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]Not good enough. Seems to Them the cycling community is out to destroy the planet. Horses, hikers, dogs, DEVOLOPERS etc- all not factors, just bikes. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]The fact all users create impact, different impact, was not a consideration. Nor was the fact steel-shod horses can weigh 50 times more than rubber wheeled bikes and can devastate a trail in one pass.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]So I basked in Their hate for a few minutes before thanking (for what, I don’t know) Them and pedaling off, as They continued to snap pics of me and the trail just as a fevered prosecutor would gathering evidence on the trail of a serial killer. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]I’m starting to take this stuff personally. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]I, and others, have been a volunteer since 1993. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]We’ve hauled peeps like this out of the wilderness, doing SAR on dirt bikes after they get lost, stuck or dead for one reason or another. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]We’ve also swung tons of steel building and maintaining trails. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]We’ve done all this and much, much more for……FREE. Not as a living, but as a way of life. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]I’ve never seen Them out there. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]I seriously doubt They have ever been on the business end of a McCloud, Pulaski, pick, chainsaw, rope, rescue chopper or stood up to flames, heat, dust and falling rock. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]How it is They lay Claims to places I/We frequent and maintain with the sweat of our brow is completely beyond me. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]Some folks simply have an agenda and the thing that really irks me is Their POV is carrying weight. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]The Uptight Armchair Armada is growing, again. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]I always try to take to the hi-road and avoid confrontation. But it seems They are feeling more and more empowered and entitled. They have no problem forcing Their ‘opinion’ on others- and Us, while ignoring the facts. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]I have no room in my little world for haters like this. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]They do not have the right to ‘claim’ an area I/We work on and maintain. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]I and many, many others have paid for, and much more importantly, earned the right with our sweat to be there doing what we love. (I’m also pretty tempted to start pointing this out with my finger in Their chests and letting Them know what’s really up.) [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]But They are having none of it. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]They want bikes gone- period. All of them. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]They could not care less what happens after that. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]They argue we are destroying habitat. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]I disagree- we are protecting it, through multiple-use, as so long as there are trails, there are no houses. Wildlife can thrive and lots of furry creatures abound. Doubt it? Take a walk. Look around. Rodents, 'coons, deer etc- they all could not care less about bikes. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]And case in point is a slide-zone for the most part. Nothing there is ‘native’. It’s all transient as it did not exist until recently. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]But They continue to Hate, from a lofty position, in a big soft chair, spreading the Word on their computers from custom tract-homes on a once pristine hillside, with two Volvo’s in the drive (not that that matters, They are exempt). [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]And for what. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]To jealously stop others from enjoying something they love, something They can’t or won’t do. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]Riding off-road. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]We have as much right to be there as they do- even more. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]Until I see Them put down the Hate Cup and pick up a shovel, They are no longer getting respect from me. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]Their voices are being heard, why not ours? [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]The only way They can win, is for Us to do nothing. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=System][SIZE=3]It’s Us vs. Them. [/SIZE][/FONT] __________________ Viva the Hill. - http://mtbpv.org/


guero mmmmm, noogs...	those people you speak of remind me of a couple people here at work...i truly believe they are addicted to, or get off on conflict. they live for it, they find it in anything and everything. i can't imagine how miserable those people must be on the inside. __________________ for a good time, click ---> Adrenaline Bikes


DownhillWebKook l'homme plus	Mountain Biking is Not a Crime I transitioned to mountain biking from skateboarding. I spent 15 years in the sport at a time when skateboarding was looked at as a degenerate sub-culture oriented lifestyle of subversiveness and vandalism. It was us against them every single day. You'd get kicked out of spots all the time or fined or have your board taken from you by authorities. Occasionally, people would try to physically assault you. Granted, we were riding in their backyard swimming pools sometime. So, why is Tony Hawk now a household name? Why are there skateparks that I would have killed for back then all over the place now? I think it has a lot to do with the aggressive nature of the people engaged in the sport. We were not always polite and we never gave up ever. We were also very ingenious. If people put up barriers or things to stop us, we would just adapt and use them as part of the stunt. I think this frustrated everyone trying to hold the sport down. So how did skateboarding (and other similar sports) become so mainstream and economically viable? I think we need to look at mountain biking in a similar way and be a little more aggressive. Good manners will never win a war, but it doesn't mean you have to be a savage either. I think we need some fresh tactics, guys and gals. __________________ Downhill Web Kook Git sum!


foofighter Duan'er - 29'er remixed	we get THEM as well when we apply for a cell site permit they come out in droves complaining of these sites radiating them and their children when during the course of their protest their cell phone rings... __________________ -Duan Dulce et Decorum Click the Button


ApexMan So fresh I'm fly!	Their mind is small to cause such hate, if they had ever taken in the views We've seen they would know that the bigger picture is that the rocks We and Them tread upon will be here long after we've dispeared.


stinkyrider Prince Charmless	Why not invite as many as these crazy groups as we can on trail clean-ups? This might have a possitive effect on their perception of mountain bikers. It's hard to hate someone that is helping.


jcbikeski Member	I've been lucky to not run into Them so I suspect it's more a problem in certain areas (maybe with a higher concentration of Us and Them in the same area). Some folks will always be angry of everything. Others are rightfully angry from the action of a few and their ignorance makes them generalize to a whole group. It's true that a few riders will barrel down a trail without slowing for (or even seeing) hikers. A few others will cut new trails or ride illegal trails which does impact the environment a lot. But most respect both nature and the right of non-riders to enjoy a day out without fear and shock of a rider blazing down right past them. The best I can do is be as extra nice as I can and hope that some of Them will start to notice that it's not ALL riders that are a problem.


Kid A Free the Trails	received this timely e-mail from IMBA... also on related topic F them END SINGLETRACK PROHIBITION: SUPPORT THE IMBA LEGAL FUND! Dear Adam, Despite the progress IMBA has made over the last 19 years, a new and serious threat has erupted. Now, alarming singletrack prohibitions threaten to oust mountain bikers from coveted trails and classic riding areas; essentially relegating us to roads and motorized routes. That's why I'm asking you to donate to IMBA's Legal Fund. Contributors of $35 or more will receive IMBA's solid-rubber Iconic Coaster Set. Your donation will help defend against lawsuits and policies that expel riders from singletrack and tackle these crucial projects: Treat mountain bikers as quiet, healthy recreationalists -- not as second class trail users. Protect public lands with policies mountain bikers can support and enjoy. Represent mountain bikers in the halls of Congress Defend ill-found claims against mountain bikers. Please donate now or read more about the Legal Fund. As I write you, singletrack prohibitions are cascading from the slopes of the Rockies toward each coast. Bike restrictions loom over the Continental Divide Trail and anti-bike extremists in Montana are suing the Forest Service to kick mountain bikers off trails. Discriminatory precedents are affecting local trails too. Riders have been kicked off all singletrack at Valley Forge Park in Pennsylvania. IMBA's network is addressing miles of singletrack bans in California, Illinois, New Jersey, North Carolina, Minnesota and Texas. Numerous cases like these desperately need your support and IMBA's forceful intervention. Preventing systematic closures takes preparation and money. Please donate to the Legal Fund today so IMBA's rapid response team is ready to act when trails are threatened near Santa Ana. Thanks for your continuing generosity, Drew Vankat IMBA Policy Analyst P.S. We need to strengthen our voice and broaden our support. After making a tax-deductible gift today, please encourage your riding partners, friends and employers to match your donation. [SIZE=3][SIZE=5]Your Free Gift[/SIZE][/SIZE] [SIZE=5][/SIZE] Contribute $35 or more to receive your solid-rubber Iconic Coaster Set. [SIZE=3][SIZE=5]3 Minutes to End Singletrack Prohibition[/SIZE][/SIZE] Take Action: Submit your official support for bikes on the Continental Divide Trail. (60 seconds) Donate to the Legal Fund: Help defend against lawsuits and policies that banish mountain bikers from singletrack. (90 seconds) Spread the Word: Ask your friends and riding partners to echo your voice and match your donation. (30 seconds) __________________ "I AM NOT LOUD! I'm exuberant."


EMrider Senior Member	Spend a few years riding dirtbikes and you'll understand THEM far better than you ever thought possible. Mountain bikers are considered saints compared to motos by the enviro closure nuts. I've given up on trying to reason with them. Ain't gonna happen. The divisions are too deep and IMHO their zeal for "the cause" typically leaves no room for compromise. I'm always polite and ride under full control. But then again, I've never had one get in my face on the trail. Should that ever happen, it would go ugly very fast. My choice is to actively support organizations that protect trail access for two-wheeled users, and others who prefer to recreate in other ways than on foot. In the end, this is a political battle. Those in the "broad and equal access" camp include many forms of recreation and have the numbers to win. They lack the political organization and experience, but that is rapidly changing. Rob


Pain Freak Directionally Challenged	Believe me I understand the need to combat Them. There is no reasoning with Them, it's their way or no way. I'll admit it, I was a full fledged member for many years and went along with most things. Looking back I see how I was foolish not to read up on it more before I sided with Them. I finally had enough when they started to tell me how to vote, it wasn't a suggestion, it was an outright demand. I left Them and found mtb'ing a few years later. If you have ever attended their meetings you'll see some of the most off balanced people you'll ever meet. They seriously believe the open lands should be reserved for Them and Them alone. __________________ "The best rides are the ones where you bite off much more than you can chew—and live through it." — Doug Bradbury "When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me." — Emo Philips


Smirnus TeamRounboys Founder	Who's going the make the bumper stickers? "At least my bike doesn't need a diaper"


KBL Powered by chocolate	I work in the off-road industry (trucks, Jeeps, pre-runners, etc.) and also have ridden dirt bikes in the past, so I've seen plenty of hate coming from THEM over the years. I've yet to see any of THEM out picking up trash or doing real improvements out on the trails that they claim to love so much. THEY seem to love lawsuits more than THEY love the outdoors. Actually, THEY don't love the outdoors...THEY just enjoy pushing other people around in the name of the outdoors. I think just being nice and proving that we are good citizens will only go so far. It's true that we should be nice to other users when we're out on the trails. We need to band together and legislatively defend our status as legitimate trail users and good citizens. This is a good thread...I'm going to sign up with IMBA. I should also add that I've seen mountain bikers act like self-righteous a$$hats as well. I have helped out with the Scenic Mt. Lowe Historic Railway Committee--the people who have placed the interpretive signs and done restoration work on the historic sites at Mt. Lowe. If you've ridden there, you might agree with me that the Mt. Lowe trails are some of the best singletracks in So. Cal. Each year, the Mt. Lowe Committee has a picnic at the Mt. Lowe campground, which is also the site of the Alpine Tavern. Members of the Mt. Lowe Committee drive up to the campground for this picnic. One year, our caravan came upon a group of mountain bikers during the drive to the campground. They were outraged that we were there in cars and trucks. One of them burst out "You guys are F-ing up the place!" This jackass spouted off without considering who might be in the cars and trucks, and he also spouted off without considering that many of the picnic attendees were older people who weren't strong enough to have hiked/biked to the campground. I wanted to shove him over the side for making mountain bikers look like judgemental hotheads. If you're riding at Mt. Lowe on the first weekend in December and you see a bunch of people in cars PLEASE BE NICE! That's my rant. Thanks for reading. __________________ Tall riders, tall wheels. Short riders, short wheels. Makes sense to me!

STR | SocalTrailRiders.org

Your Southern CaliforniaMountain Biking Community

Your Southern California
Mountain Biking Community