Dave Weagle at it again.

[Pho'dUp]

All you fans of Dave's previous work with the DW-link seen on Ironhorse bikes (and the copy by Giant) will be happy to see he's released a new design called Split-Pivot with a concentric pivot around the rear dropout. You guys out there who are fans of the thru-axle rears will be happy to know it's designed with a 12 or 10mm thru-axle.

From mtbr.com Dave Weagle launches new suspension system, SPLIT PIVOT - Mtbr.com Forums

This week, Dave Weagle, the creator of the World Champion and internationally acclaimed dw-link suspension introduces a new system to the cycling world. The new system is called SPLIT PIVOT and features worldwide patent pending concentric dropout pivot technology never seen before. A web site dedicated to the system, Split Pivot Suspension - Ride for fun., was launched earlier in May 2007.

Dave had the following to say about the launch of the new system: “I’m thrilled to finally be able to show Split Pivot off. This has been something that I’ve worked on for quite a while, years actually, licensed to partners and talked to others behind closed doors, built prototypes, but nobody in the public has seen it yet. It’s so hard to keep something so exciting a secret for so long so I am glad that part is over. I think that riders are really going to enjoy this system. It allows for atypical pivot placement that works great for acceleration and bump absorption and the concentric dropout pivot lets me tune braking forces at the same time. Basically the Split Pivot bikes are a lot of fun to ride.”

What is it?

Split Pivot is a worldwide patent pending suspension system for high performance bicycles, where traction, efficiency, maneuverability, and frame stiffness are important factors on the track and trail. Split Pivot’s [concentric dropout pivot] is the heart of this new design and provides performance that no single pivot can duplicate. Shaped by Dave Weagle's competition proven engineering, Split Pivot is designed to offer a ride that will make you smile.

How does it work?

Split Pivot separates acceleration forces from braking forces in the suspension. The system reduces excess suspension compression due to acceleration forces, and at the same time reduces excess compression due to braking forces. Braking neutrality can be tuned independently of acceleration characteristics, and leverage rate curves can be tuned to meet the needs of the application. Shock layout can be vertical, horizontal, floating or even driven by a modifier link.

The system lends itself to ease of manufacture, and can be engineered to build lightweight frame structures without resorting to exotic materials or tube shapes. Featuring 12mm thru axle, QR 12mm axle, or 10mm vertical QR possibilities, plenty of stock wheels fit the design.

Bottom Line: Split Pivot can be engineered to offer a ride that will make you want to be on your bike more often.

Split Pivot will be available Worldwide in late 2007 and early 2008, details on brands and models to come soon. Prototypes are out there, keep your eyes peeled!

Split Pivot, Split-Pivot.com, and Ride for fun! are pending trademarks of Split Pivot Inc. Split.Pivot@gmail.com Split Pivot Suspension - Ride for fun. Ride for fun!


source: Dave Weagle, e13components.com
Attached Images

[Waldo]

Interesting. I don't claim to understand frame geometry and braking/pedaling forces well, but I've always wondered by frames aren't designed with the suspension pivots in line with the centers of the cogs & cassette.

Thanks for posting that, C. Hope you're feeling better. You missed a nice little crash-fest yesterday.

[RidetheRAAM4]

so the cranks and all that jazz is going to move wit the swingarm? It looks like that in those 3D models.

[Pho'dUp]

Originally Posted by Waldo

Interesting. I don't claim to understand frame geometry and braking/pedaling forces well, but I've always wondered by frames aren't designed with the suspension pivots in line with the centers of the cogs & cassette.

Thanks for posting that, C. Hope you're feeling better. You missed a nice little crash-fest yesterday.

Dam wish I was there. I've spent 3 days on my ass sick as a dog. Turning around a bit I think, but crashing sounds like a much better option right now.

[Dino Brown]

Oh yes---- my Lord and Savior "DW" has done it again!!! First, he develops (what is in my opinion) the finest suspension system on the planet. Reasons?? DW-LINK - Home

Next, he decides he needs something to do in his spare time so he starts a "little" company- e13!!!!!

Hmmm.... "what now? I know, why not develop ISCG 05?" Great idea Dave!!! Thanks for revolutionizing the way we look at chainguides.

Whaaat now?? I know, why don't you develop a "design" that will change the way we look at single pivots? All we ask is the system is simple, lightweight, stiff, strong, improves efficiency, and minimizes brake jack. Can ya' do that for us Dave?

Many of us were raised on single pivot bikes. If someone tells me their improved pivot design retains all of the benefits of the SP while eliminating most of the negatives associated with it- they have my attention. Time will tell...

I also find the timing of the patent quite curious- TREK has been developing a "similar" system for some time. Could he be protecting his design? Licensing it to Trek? Partnering? Again, time will tell.

[Waldo]

Originally Posted by Pho'dUp

Dam wish I was there. I've spent 3 days on my ass sick as a dog. Turning around a bit I think, but crashing sounds like a much better option right now.

I'll be off the bike for at least a couple days myself now, thanks to a strained thumb tendon. kinda hard to ride when you can't grip the bars. Other than that, I had fun

[Pain Freak]

Not a fan of Dave. But his DW link is very worthy of praise. I'll wait and see what the bike does.

[spookydave]

I'm a fan of Dave's. I got to hang out with him in Big Bear back in 2001 when Evil was just starting to really roll. He seemed like a super cool, humble and down to earth guy.
His talent is with out question.

[L8 APEKS]

Originally Posted by RidetheRAAM4

so the cranks and all that jazz is going to move wit the swingarm? It looks like that in those 3D models.

Yeah, but that part isn't anything new. That was new maybe 10-12 years ago (active rear triangle).

Interesting designs. I started riding right when rear suspension was starting to catch on...it's so interesting to see the evolution of rear suspension thus far!

[Flat Broke]

Originally Posted by RidetheRAAM4

so the cranks and all that jazz is going to move wit the swingarm? It looks like that in those 3D models.

Sorry, but no. The cranks/driveline will not be pivoting with the swingarm. From a bump absorbtion standpoint, the split pivot will behave very similar to a standard single pivot. The difference is going to come isolating braking forces from suspension movement. Notice how the chainstay in both images is still ultimately linked to a single fixed pivot point on the front triangle of the frame, and the bottom bracket is part of the front triangle structure. The main difference is that the seat stay is going to be able to articulate around the chainstay, similar to an FSR suspension design; except in this version, the pivot will be concentric to the rear axle.

If you're interested and want more info, the threads on RM and emptybeer have tons of info and personal explanation from DW. I had totally overlooked the manufacturing process streamlining the design allows, as well as the far looser (relatively speaking) tollerances that can be allowed over a dw*link suspension design; until Dave posted up highlighting those benefits.

Cool stuff for sure, and could really be nice to loose a little heft in the rear end of something like a single pivot 5.5-6" playbike/slopestyle deal which is a pretty hot little niche right now.

Chris

[Pho'dUp]

Originally Posted by Flat Broke

I had totally overlooked the manufacturing process streamlining the design allows, as well as the far looser (relatively speaking) tollerances that can be allowed over a dw*link suspension design; until Dave posted up highlighting those benefits.

Hmm, wonder if easier manufacturering will equal some cheaper frame prices comparatively. Unfortunately, I'm sure there's a ton of other things like materials, volume, recoup R&D etc. that will come into play.

[Gabriel Zink]

Looks interesting but is just a older ideas being applied in a new way.

[Flat Broke]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Zink

Looks interesting but is just a older ideas being applied in a new way.

Gabe,

That Rotec is cool fo sho. I'm surprised more bb concentric pivot designs haven't been done. Kona's new version with the Cowan/Howler seems to be working out fairly well.

Pho,

I think the "less expensive" angle is part of the issue. But I doubt it will be in the sense that frames will get cheaper. Probably more along the lines of traditional single pivot frames like a bullit, yakuza, etc getting the bennefit of better braking without the pricepoint hit of going to a multilink design which seems to carry a heftier price tag. As far as recouping R&D, MFGs can buy a license for the tech from DW like Ironhorse does with the link. So from that standpoint, there's no R&D to recoup, just whatever DW will charge for licensing. Probably much cheaper to buy the license than pay for the R&D.

Probably one of the nicest niches/easiest fits for this tech is in licensing it to DH mfgs that rely on single pivot designs. Morewood, Cove, Orange, etc. can ditch an "add on" floating brake setup, and drop weight instantly.

The part that I think is coolest about this or the DW link technology is that someone who loves bikes found a profitable way to put his ideas out to the world without having to build/sell frames to do it. There are some very sharp people in this sport and others, that don't have the time,capital, or other means to bring their ideas to market. DW has set a very good example on how to make the ideas you have that pertain to your hobby/sport work for you.

Chris

[Pho'dUp]

Well looks like Trek is using this design for 2008. These are shots of the new Fuels.





Wonder if they're licensing from DW?

Pics from cyclingnews. www.cyclingnews.com - the world centre of cycling

[mechmann]

dude... that seat tube on the new trek has to weigh a ton. they are putting a ton more stress on that beesh. either that or they are going to have to slap a Gary Fissure sticker on them and put them next to all their other bikes with busted seat tubes.

[Sprockethead]

Saw this post on MTBR about Split Pivot

If you can't afford a DW-Link bike, then Split Pivot is the next best thing. It'll perform as well or better than a FSR. Hmmm, interesting.....dunno if I believe the hype.

Mtbr.com Forums - View Single Post - DW Split Pivot Suspension System

[guero]

do all these things really make a big difference?!?! it seems there is always so much hype surrounding the technology. i know companies are always trying to one-up each other and what not but sometimes it seems like this stuff is getting out of control and beyond that, the arguments that exist over on mtbr regarding the different suspension designs, and pivot locations etc. are amazing!!!! i wonder if these guys spend as much time riding as they do barking on the forums?!?!? . ::rant over::

[Dino Brown]

Thanks (in large part) to rear shock technology, the differences between different designs is less of a factor than in years past.

With that said, the differences are still there!!! Pivot locations DO matter!!! The efficiency with which most VPP's climb is amazing. The descending abilities of many single pivots is pretty impressive. Most of us are all too familiar with terms such as brake jack and pedal bob!!!! I swore my next bike would minimize the effects of both. It does!!! Should we believe all the hype- NO! Should we be sceptical of everything we read- NO!

My point is this--- except for the DW-Link, there are no perfect suspension designs!!!

Thank you for your time,
Dino Brown

[Gabriel Zink]

Looked like a good Idea until Trek did it. I feel that Trek and Gary Fisher have the worst FS bikes of all time.

[Skeeter]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Zink

Looked like a good Idea until Trek did it. I feel that Trek and Gary Fisher have the worst FS bikes of all time.

So let me get this straight, if some other company, say whoever makes the bike you ride, used this technology it would be good. But if Trek uses it it is the worst design of all time.


Sounds like rational thinking dude.