Aliso Woods Enforcement Coming...

[OMR]

Originally Posted by bananaseat

sounds like a letter to the editor, or letter's section of BIKE magazine is in order...

An email mail was sent earlier this week reminding them that Telonic was illegal and that they needed to post this in their next issue to stop the confusion.

OMR

[CalEpic]

Let's hope the rangers enforce off-leash dog violations as vigorously as citing mountain bikers for poaching.

[ODB]

Originally Posted by mtber3737

The Resource Management Plan (RMP) for the park calls for the opening up of 8 new single track trails (which includes Car Wreck).

What other trails are on the RMP list? I've heard rumors that Schoolyards and Birthday are possibilities, but have seen nothing official. Thanks.

[Winston]

The Aliso Woods RMP giveth:

1. Reroute Corridor Trail.
2. Aliso Beach Park Class 1 Bikeway.
3. Car Wreck.
4. Birthday Trail (aka Nestall).
5. East Ridge Trail (Five Oaks Link).
6. Aliso Creek (East).
7. Aliso Summit Trail to Aliso Creek East.

8. Esslinger Trail.

And the Aliso Woods RMP taketh away:

1. Ibis
2. Bong Drop
3. Dog Park
4. Smoothies
5. Alpine
6. Schoolyard
7. Red Rider
8. No Way Out

9. JT’s

Originally Posted by ODB

What other trails are on the RMP list? I've heard rumors that Schoolyards and Birthday are possibilities, but have seen nothing official. Thanks.

[J_Sims]

I missed this thread the first time through so I thought maybe some others did so as well....


BUMP

[genusmtbkr5]

Originally Posted by J_Sims

I missed this thread the first time through so I thought maybe some others did so as well....


BUMP

Take note Jeff, this was posted LAST YEAR. Although, Telonics is still illegal to ride as well as riding at night.

[J_Sims]

Originally Posted by genusmtbkr5

Take note Jeff, this was posted LAST YEAR. Although, Telonics is still illegal to ride as well as riding at night.

OOOOpppps My bad but there is still quite a bit of confusion regarding some of these trails...

[Abstrakt77]

Odd...

Leaping Lizard

So its an illegal trail but open to certain clubs and/or events?? Kind of contradicting dont you think?

[TBlazen]

....UUUMMMMmmmm....

i went down as a newbie (NO, I had no idea)....


haven't been down since and I'm not so new any more...

Place still scares me...

BTW, who sits in that chair at the bottom of Telonics ?

Is it the same guy that has a clip board at the bottom of Stair Steps ?

[Just_me]

Originally Posted by Abstrakt77

Odd...

Leaping Lizard

So its an illegal trail but open to certain clubs and/or events?? Kind of contradicting dont you think?

this year was the 25th year.

[thephat]

Originally Posted by Winston

The Aliso Woods RMP giveth:

1. Reroute Corridor Trail.
2. Aliso Beach Park Class 1 Bikeway.
3. Car Wreck.
4. Birthday Trail (aka Nestall).
5. East Ridge Trail (Five Oaks Link).
6. Aliso Creek (East).
7. Aliso Summit Trail to Aliso Creek East.

8. Esslinger Trail.

And the Aliso Woods RMP taketh away:

1. Ibis
2. Bong Drop
3. Dog Park
4. Smoothies
5. Alpine
6. Schoolyard
7. Red Rider
8. No Way Out

9. JT’s

Closed to humans? I don't like humans anyway. I'v had myself reclasified as wildlife.

PS don't shoot me.

[thephat]

Originally Posted by JamR

I've always been really surprised that the people who seem to be passionate about Telonics have not taken steps to get it legalized and placed on the map; unless they alread tried and found out it was not going to happen. If people were really passionate about Telonics it would seem that by now someone would have started steps to legalize it.

I think that many of us who love this trail have no interest in dealing with the establishment. We feel betrayed and disenfranchised by the poloticians, the wealthy land owners, the land managers, and the system in general. We do not want our ways commercialized, put on the map, popularized, made "safe" or even "sustainable". We like having places to go to escape this kind of thinking. We are not looking for any permission to do what seems right to us.

Right or wrong, I think this is why there has been little attemt to "legalize" Telonics.

As I have said before, I support many who work within the system for mountain bikers' rights, and to maintain even sanatize the trails. However, that is not my only angle in all of this.

Now would everyone please stop speeding on the freeway. I want to get a lot more freeways opened, but all you speeders are giving drivers a bad name, and making my job dificult...

[thephat]

Originally Posted by Abstrakt77

Odd...

Leaping Lizard

So its an illegal trail but open to certain clubs and/or events?? Kind of contradicting dont you think?

Kind of like how torture is legal if you do it to "terorists".

It all comes down to who is getting away with what.

Doing it does not make it legal. Making it legal does not make it good. Making it illegal does not make it wrong.

[dudevf1]

Originally Posted by 2wheel_lee

That's great to hear. Although I know little about SHARE, other than they are responsible for sanitizing trails, I'm glad to hear they are working on doing something in our best interest.

Admittedly, I've ridden my fair share of illegal trails. However, I usually haven't done so knowingly. I often find myself riding trails with a group, and assume the trails are cool to ride. Like one of the above mentioned trails. I asked several people that day and I was told it was legal. I first found it it wasn't on this board, and have since been asking lots of people.

I understand that I am responsible to know the rules, but posting maps at only the main entrance to a park doesn't effectively reach the entire user group. Call me lazy (I won't argue), but if they want to get the message out, it helps to use effective means. It's one thing for mountain bikers who participate in user groups - we get info, but a majority of bikers just ride. They're not in touch with the "community" so they don't know about any of the political BS.

It is totally reasonable to expect that enough information be provided to discern the status of a trail. In fact, the rangers should expect more problems when things are not marked or properly marked. How easy would enforcement be and how much of their time and resources would they waste if they provided ZERO information publicly about any trails. Then they would spend an idiotic amount of time running around slapping people with tickets after the fact.

The lack of information and the ticketing reminds me of the rental car companies that were charging people for exceeding the speed limit when they didn't tell them in advance that they put monitoring equipment in their car. Had they communciated that aspect in advance then they likely would have achieved the "desired" result--people abiding by the speed limit in their cars--but they would not have collected the extra money. Also, since other companies didn't have the equipment they might have lost business if they told people about the equipment in advance. Yeah, they were really concerned about people abiding by the speed limit...so long as it didn't cost them upfront business.

The point of this is that lack of information is not the best approach. Give people reasonable information and come down hard on violators. But don't get all bent out of shape when it's obvious that there isn't clear information as to the status of the trails in question. If you want trail users to be responsible then the enforcement needs to be responsible as well.

[ocrider]

Originally Posted by kentonn

I just scanned the Aliso RMP and found no mention of Telonics one way or the other. Ibis, Bong Drop, Dog Park, Smoothies, Alpine Schoolyard, Red Rider No Way Out and JT's were specifically listed as Unauthorized...

The confusion continues?

Telonics isnt on County property maybe thats y. Its on city of laguna beach open space.

[JamR]

Originally Posted by thephat

I think that many of us who love this trail have no interest in dealing with the establishment. We feel betrayed and disenfranchised by the poloticians, the wealthy land owners, the land managers, and the system in general. We do not want our ways commercialized, put on the map, popularized, made "safe" or even "sustainable". We like having places to go to escape this kind of thinking. We are not looking for any permission to do what seems right to us.

Right or wrong, I think this is why there has been little attemt to "legalize" Telonics.

As I have said before, I support many who work within the system for mountain bikers' rights, and to maintain even sanatize the trails. However, that is not my only angle in all of this.

Now would everyone please stop speeding on the freeway. I want to get a lot more freeways opened, but all you speeders are giving drivers a bad name, and making my job dificult...

The problem with this thinking is that it is solely self-serving for a very small group and not for mountain biking in general for the bigger picture of our sport.

Also it is not a true statement that if Telonics is legitimized it will be sanitized.

Stairsteps is legal and has not been changed.
Five Oaks is legal and has not been changed.
Laguna Ridge is legal and has not been changed.
Rock-It is legal and the only sterilization has come from bikers themselves riding the p-lines.
Five out of Six non-sanctioned single-tracks in the Irvine Open Space Preserve have been legalized and have not been sterilized.

The issue is that right now Telonics is not in county property however things do change, and there will probably come a time when that trail will get more scrutiny from Laguna Beach, private property owners, Laguna Canyon Foundation, or the County if that parcel comes under the jurisdiction of the park.

What will inevitably happen then will be similar to what has happened with other trails........bikers will get very angry and will push for an 11th hour grab to stop it's closure and restoration.

Why not just start those proceedings now while the trail is in a state of flux?

Complacency on the part of bikers and other user groups is how many trails were not looked at in the first place for inclusion in the inventory of trails for the parks.

So the entire biking community would be better served if the people who have a passion for a particular trail would lobby for that trail from the beginning.

Again..........I would bet you that a few years from now we may be precisely in the place I listed above with some agency stepping in with closed area signs followed by enforcement on Telonics........and bikers will be inflamed at that time, instead of taking steps now to get it protected and on the map.

You may not be looking for "Permission to do what is right" in your mind.....but that will not get you out of a citation if it ever comes to that on Telonics.

Why not just look beyond that trail and think about the bigger picture?

If you are passionate about a trail and do nothing to protect it......you are not a part of any solution.

I'm all in support of trails and technical trails including Telonics.....but have the desire to see them pursued and opened legitimately through the proper channels so once completed they will be there for years to come.

The days of the local knowledge small group trails are gone in O.C. and the Leapin Lizards race itself is part of the reason this trail has gained such notariety...................why not just get it legalized?

Just my .02

Thanks!

[TURNERob]

Adam,

Doesn't Telonics end on private property? Is there anyway it could be legalized realistically?