Citations Issued At El Moro

[Chopper]

I had a short meeting with the rangers at Crystal Cove last night, and as part of their program to step up back country enforcement, two citations were issued this week. They were issued for entering the park when it was closed (post rain closure) and the violators were HIKERS.

Awhile back someone expressed some concern that the new enforcement policy would focus on just mountain bikers but I guess that won't the case.

BTW - the ranger that issued the tickets said that one of the hikers gave a false name in an attempt to avoid paying the fine. This turned it into a much more serious vioation and ended up costing her in excess of $300.
Don't forget, the state park rangers are actually police officers.

[CPATCRASH]

I heard there was a ranger at the bottom of Nothing Better To Do in deer canyon issuing citations on Saturday as well. They need to get a sign up there ASAP.

[Chopper]

Originally Posted by CPATCRASH

I heard there was a ranger at the bottom of Nothing Better To Do in deer canyon issuing citations on Saturday as well. They need to get a sign up there ASAP.

No way. I will call them today but I am certain this is not true. They agreed in our last meeting that no citations would be issued until signage was in place for at least 3 months.

[tkblazer]

its sad that it has to come to this, but in a way i'm glad to see something happening. Hopefully now, everyone will respect the rules and guidelines given by the park system.

[CPATCRASH]

Originally Posted by tkblazer

its sad that it has to come to this, but in a way i'm glad to see something happening. Hopefully now, everyone will respect the rules and guidelines given by the park system.

I already saw a group of people heading off to ride some of the illegal trails on Sunday. Some people don't get it and will jepordize access for everyone because of there actions.

[tkblazer]

what the heck is vahalla, o well guess if i don't know it, i won't miss it.

[guero]

here is a clue nam:

[JamR]

They were down at the bottom of NB2D over the weekend, but not issuing citations.

But people should remember that "closed trail" signs don't need to be installed to issue citations, and we've been pushing the message about riding only legaly signed and mapped trails for years.

Most land managers don't want to see dozens of closed trail signs all over their parks, and the messages in Crystal Cove/El Moro are especially easy since their trail head signs have a trail map of the area printed directly on them, so it's easy to identify the legal trails.

Legal trails will be shown on the land managers map, or signed at the trail head, or preferrably both.

It is ultimately the user's responsibility to know the legal trails of the areas they recreate in.

I think the only trail that does not have an actual sign in place right now is Emerald Falls (BVD), but it is shown on the Laguna Coast map that is available at the park entrance.

Bottom line......if you are not absolutely sure that a trail you are about to enter is legal or not.....don't use it until you know for sure. A trail does not have to be signed as "unauthorized or closed" before citations can be issued. Citations can be issued for any infraction at any time.

Better to be safe than sorry.

Unfortunately I'm sure there will be a few citations issued before the message sinks in.

[Winger]

Citations @ Crystal Cove? $10/car is a citation in itself!

[CPATCRASH]

Originally Posted by Winger

Citations @ Crystal Cove? $10/car is a citation in itself!

Park in L.C.W.P and ride in. You will save $7.00.

[Shannon]

I was at El Moro a couple weeks ago about 2 or 3 days after a day of heavy rain. I parked up at Ridgepark and saw that the park was closed. However just past the sign I could see 2 hikers heading into the park and one just exiting.
As bad as I wanted to ride and figured that trails were just fine, I didn't go in. Not to sound like I'm happy that some hikers got a citation, but it is nice to hear that the rules of the park aren't just for mountain bikers....

[2wheel_lee]

Originally Posted by JamR

Bottom line......if you are not absolutely sure that a trail you are about to enter is legal or not.....don't use it until you know for sure. A trail does not have to be signed as "unauthorized or closed" before citations can be issued. Citations can be issued for any infraction at any time.

Better to be safe than sorry.

Good suggestion. I won't go there, since I suck at reading maps (it's a guy thing, I guess).

Originally Posted by Winger

Citations @ Crystal Cove? $10/car is a citation in itself!

Agreed.
And that's one of the reasons I stopped going there.

Originally Posted by CPATCRASH

Park in L.C.W.P and ride in. You will save $7.00.

Are El Moro trail maps available at LCWP?

[Chopper]

Would'nt it make sense to at least have a sign at the park entrance stating that any trails not on the map should not be used? How would someone know the rules if they aren't posted somewhere?

Also the map signs at El Moro are, in many locations, faded and useless. I replaced as many as I could but I can only replace as many as they provide me with. I even offered to have SHARE pay for new map signs and still their not getting done.

If the true intent of rule enforcement is to get people to obey the rules, it has to be done with an equal amount of education. I thought the park management agreed with us on that! Maybe I was wrong.

[Skeeter]

Originally Posted by Chopper

No way. I will call them today but I am certain this is not true. They agreed in our last meeting that no citations would be issued until signage was in place for at least 3 months.

The rangers were at the bottom of "that trail" but they weren't handing out violations, only making you hike back up the trail the way you came. Thanks for the group of riders the we ran into hiking back up that warned us and saved us all that work as well. Didn't know if they were STR'rs but thanks if you were.

[Sprockethead]

Originally Posted by 2wheel_lee

Are El Moro trail maps available at LCWP?

I believe the LCWP map has trails for El Moro and you can pick them up at the sign in table when you enter LCWP, Free.

[JamR]

Originally Posted by Chopper

Would'nt it make sense to at least have a sign at the park entrance stating that any trails not on the map should not be used? How would someone know the rules if they aren't posted somewhere?

Also the map signs at El Moro are, in many locations, faded and useless. I replaced as many as I could but I can only replace as many as they provide me with. I even offered to have SHARE pay for new map signs and still their not getting done.

If the true intent of rule enforcement is to get people to obey the rules, it has to be done with an equal amount of education. I thought the park management agreed with us on that! Maybe I was wrong.

Aliso-Woods started putting those signs in the kiosks back when Tom Maloney was the Ranger there. But it still falls on the responsibility of the user to read the sign, and get ahold of the trail map.

Land managers should try to send clear and consistent messages to the users and it's something we all need to work on.

But it is still the ultimate responsibility of the user.

Case in point.....a couple of weeks ago I was up at the end of Fenceline and watched as three runners stood looking at the sign. I heard one say that the singletrack to the left was not on the map, but they decided to head in anyway.

Education should be the primary tool, but there comes a time when it needs to be coupled with enforcement.

How many riders do we all personally know that ride these trails with full knowledge that they are not legal, but do so because they know that no enforcement has taken place in the past? But once they are educated that in fact enforcement is taking place they will think twice about using the trail.

Enforcement is also one type of education, and should be a last resort; but for the people on these boards, this is not a new issue. The posts regarding unauthorized trails goes back to 1996 when Aliso-Woods first started putting up closed trail signs in their park, and I remember attending trail summits all the way back in 1999 where bikers stood up in public forums to ask about the status of many of the trails in question throughout the South Coast Wilderness area.

How long should education go on until enforcement kicks in?

Just some thoughts.