Nuub Question - How do I rank myself?

[bobzrag]

I have just recently found this site and its a good resource for mtbr's and rides. My biking buddy just moved to Utar and I'm looking for like-skilled riders to get out with.

So my question is how do I figure out where I land in the spectrum - I recently took the bikeskills beginner course and although I picked up some good tips from Jason, I don't consider myself a beginner, but I don't think I'm an intermediate either, I went out with the Path crew for a Sunday morning ride last year and was out of my league - where should I start?

Any suggestions would be appreciated - thanks, Bob

[scruffylooking]

bobzrag - good observation. Mtbiking needs something like what ski schools have: a chart that classifies riders based on skills into skill levels. It wont be super accurate but it doesn't need to be. Just ball park. There are some who have taken a stab at it. I'll see if I can find some for you.

BTW - I updated the old post with pics. Check it out.

[tkblazer]

i don't even bother ranking myself in terms of riding skill. I just like to go out and ride.. there will always be skills to learn and i'll eventually pick up new skills and techniques from riding with different people. Why did you feel that the path ride was out of your league?

[bobzrag]

the day I went with the path we went to Santiago Oaks (I think to waterfall), every one did some bike carrying and there was some pretty good rutty single track - I'm probably up for trying that again actually

[Collette]

Good Question!

I usually ride diverse trails with varying terrain, a great way to see exactly where I am in terms of riding ability. I learned the hard way that dominating one type of trail, means nothing given how diverse trails are.

[scruffylooking]

Originally Posted by Wildcat

Good Question!

I usually ride diverse trails with varying terrain, a great way to see exactly where I am in terms of riding ability. I learned the hard way that dominating one type of trail, means nothing given how diverse trails are.

Agreed. I rode in norcal last year and it felt so different: trail surface, trees, and tight singletrack. It wasn't nearly as technical as it is down here but there was a lot more singletrack with exposure and I rode real stiff through a lot of that. Ugly ugly ugly. Made dumb mistakes.

[dubjay]

Gary Fox has an interesting rating system on his site. He also rates most of the trails in the SD area.

Rate Your Riding Level

[FONT=comic sans ms,arial,helvetica][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=4]Determining Your Riding Level[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=comic sans ms,arial,helvetica][FONT=Times New Roman]Choose the statement which best fits you. The number in front of it will determine your riding level.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=comic sans ms,arial,helvetica][FONT=Times New Roman]1 - 3 = Novice rider
4 - 6 = Intermediate rider
7 - 9 = Advanced rider[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=comic sans ms,arial,helvetica][FONT=Times New Roman]1. Level one rides are the easiest. Anyone with an appropriate bike and a spirit for adventure should be fine.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]2. You have attended several MTB rides which you enjoy and feel you would like to improve your riding.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]3. You feel like you are starting to get the hang of mountain biking and you are getting a little more aggressive at it.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]4. You're new aggressive riding style has caused you a few humbling spills, but your are hooked now. You may feel intimidated by the harder rides, but you go anyway.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]5. Now you have that "if they can do it, I can do it" attitude and you can do it more often than not. You no longer worry that the ride will be too hard.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]6. You can make it up, down or over most technical difficulties. When you find something you can't make you may try it several time in a row to see if you can master it.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]7. You look for the hard stuff now. You consider level 1, 2 or 3 rides social events.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]8. You are checking out this page just t see someone else's Idea of different levels. You know you can do any ride and be one of the better rider there.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]9. You ride as often as you can, you are the one willing to try anything and are always one of the best riders with any group you go with.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=comic sans ms,arial,helvetica][FONT=Times New Roman]
[/FONT][/FONT]

[Pain Freak]

It's really very open to interpetation. Like Wildcat says, you can handle one type of terrain (the climb) but suck at the downhill. Or the other way around. Where does that put you in a classification? It all depends on what ride you want to do. Some folks have no desire to be climbers and some would rather climb all day. So you pay attention to the ride description and you pick the ones that are right for you. I personally like both the climb and the descent with a variety of obstacles. But the one factor that wil get me to a ride before all else is the beauty of the surrondings. Join some rides and see how you fit in that group. Watch out for the hammerheads, they have a one track mind and will hurt you (Beware the ShinKen). Join a number of rides and when you find a group/s you are comfortable with the classification won't make a whole lot of difference. Main thing is to have fun.

[MTBMaven]

Don't let the guys from the Path get you down. Those guys are very strong riders with years of experience. Depending on where you live I would recommend checking out the following trails/areas:
- San Juan Trail Shuttle: I love taking newer riders there
- El Moro and Aliso Woods: If you stick to the legal stuff there are plenty of non-technical trails that will build your confidence
- Del Cerro: Located in Palos Verdes there is something for everyone in this little place. Be nice to the hikers and horsey people, they don't like us right now
- Santa Monica Mtns.: There is a whole variety of stuff out there. I like the Backbone Trail from Kanan going east. All singletrack but little to know exposure, clean trail, challenging but short climbs. This would be a great trail for someone with your experience. I spent a lot of time out there and Del Cerro in the beginning, I was living in Torrance at the time.

I still can't just for crap but feel more comfortable on drops and have been riding very frequently for 6 years but dabbled in mountain biking for 12-13 years. It takes a while to feel comfortable with exposure, which is why I didn't recommend anything in the Angeles. Most of the trails out here have a lot of exposure, meaning steep side or cliffs on the edge of narrow trails.

On the downhill it comes down the balance and body control. Being able to make minor adjustments with your body to keep yourself upright and moving in the right direction. Using your hips, legs, and upper body are key. Don't sit down, stand up with your pedals parallel, and lower your seat for longer downhills. After a while when you want to go down steeper trails, practice getting behind your seat to the point your but almost hits the tire. If you are going to be able to go down steep trails you need to be able to get back behind the seat. And for goodness sake, look where you want to go, not where you don't. Don't look at the rock you don't want to hit or else you will hit it. Seems like common sense but we look at the rock, cliff, tree root, whatever we don't want to hit and what happens?...we hit it. Learn good brake control as well. You must use your front brakes when descending. But let off them just after going off a small drop off and get right back on them. Don't let your rear brake lock up on steeps because it will start to come around on you wanting to be first.

On the uphill for me it comes down to breathing and heart rate control, for me. Secondarily it is about balance at low speeds. I find a heart rate monitor helps with the heart rate and breathing control. I now know the heart rate range I can sustain, if I find myself to high I know I need to back off a bit. Using the HRM is a bit more scientific than just using your breathing. Once warmed up your breathing will be slower at 180 BPM than in the beginning, but for me if I hang out above 180 BPM for too long I will bonk and run out of legs on a climb. If I get to high of a heart rate on technical climbs I begin to make mistakes, so the key is to control the heart, the breathing, the balance, and the bike a slower speeds so you can just keep riding. Be patient, don't gun it and stop, gun it and stop.

[scruffylooking]

dubjay - interesting, he doesn't really use the mastery of skills as his way of rating ability. It's all sort of based on confidence and what you're willing to try. But that's so relative to what your local terrain is like. Based on this I'd probably be an advanced rider in Iowa. No offense to Iowans.

PF - agreed, it's very subjective and open to tradition but there aren't always descriptions for the rides. The Path, for example, they decide the morning of often on where they're going. And if there is a description of a ride it's usually just what trails will be ridden: for a noob that doesn't give them much of an idea of what they'll be riding.

Riders getting in over their heads by going on rides above their skill level seems common. It would be sad if many quit mountain biking before even giving it a chance because it was too hard the first time out.

My 2 cents but I'm still forming my opinion here so feel free to discuss.

[dstepper]

I think alot of it has to do with who you ride with. I know certain rides the riders do not like to wait on slower riders. I am a slow rider so I stay away from the training rides. It took me awhile to find a group that I am comfortable riding with. Any of the rides I post will be Slacker Rides or rides, I ride with people who don't mind waiting and re-grouping. My rides may be on tech trails but the pace will be slow and no one left behind...ever.

My so called friends took me down Rockit the first day out, tellling me that it was a beginner trail. I stopped riding with groups for a long time after that. I was so out of shape that I could barely make it up Woods Canyon to Cholla and these fools thought it was funny to "breakin the new guy".


Dean

[scruffylooking]

Originally Posted by dstepper

My so called friends took me down Rockit the first day out, tellling me that it was a beginner trail. I stopped riding with groups for a long time after that. I was so out of shape that I could barely make it up Woods Canyon to Cholla and these fools thought it was funny to "breakin the new guy".

I'm guilty of doing this to people, too. I think we forget what it's like to be a noob and we don't want to be bored but beginners usually don't have the fitness to ride our normal rides nor the skills to make it down without being scared. Typically, a beginner may be nervous about riding up or down a curb. Is that the type of person you'd want to take down Rockit?

Props to you guys were able to tough it out but how do we introduce people to the sport and get them to fall in love with it, not be terrified of it? In skiing/snowboarding, we bring our noob friends and plug them into a class. Then we go and ride the fun stuff and meet them for lunch. That's what we need in mountain biking.

[gurp13]

I consider myself an average to strong intermediate rider. I would classify people according to two categories: 1) How long of a ride can they endure? 2)How technical can the trail be for that rider?

For example, I can ride pretty far and climb okay. Sure, I might b*tch and whine some but I'll keep going. I can probably handle a ride that goes for 30 miles, maybe more but not by much. I can handle riding exposure and rocky stuff. But, drops and steep, technical descents will get me to walk. Oh, and I'm not very fast, either. So, yeah, like Dstepper said, I'm not going on training rides. The Vision Quest and Counting Coup are not for me, probably never will be. But, I think I could handle the Palm Canyon ride which is a pretty tough ride.

It's all pretty subjective. I've had people tell me that the Strawberry Peak trail is an advanced trail but I thought the Zion/Chantry/Winter Creek ride we did was a lot harder.

[soul rider]

go spin the fully loop for ups and downs but nothing too crazy( conditioning), then carbon canyon for longer rides and more sustained climbing or turnbull for steep climbs and some techy downhill. after that hit Aliso for the next step, steep climbs and more tech downhill. if and when you are comfortable with all those rides it is pretty much open. no shame in walking new sections.
happy trails

[Kid A]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]Hmm, not sure it up to you to rank yourself, but rather the guys/gals you are riding with. My friends have always been kind enough to let me know my level. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]For example when I started riding and had no clue I was level 1- "pure entertainment". [/SIZE][/FONT]

[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial]After riding a bit and building some wind/legs I was level 2- "always in the way"[/FONT][/SIZE]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]Further riding helped me attain some tech skills and a false set of cojones (not to be confused with balls or guts, right PF?) so then I graduated to level 3 - "just plain dangerous". [/SIZE][/FONT]

[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial]Unfortunately, now that I am on DL (f’n again!!!) and cannot ride I have fallen back to level 2.a.1 – "stuck at home sniveling cry baby"[/FONT][/SIZE]

[FONT=Bookman Old Style][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial]Confident that I will be riding again, I fully expect reaching level 4 – "Back on the rig, Fat as a pig"[/FONT] [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]So in summary, do not worry about self-ascribing your ride level as the responsibility and pleasure is that of your ride buds.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]j/k – cred to most posts above. suggest you just find a good set of peeps to ride with and it’s all good. In reality, finding riders that are cool and have advanced skills to you will help you develop your riding just by watching their ride style, lines they take, gear selection, etc.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]Good luck[/SIZE][/FONT]

[ApexMan]

Good contributions all! To add/reinforce, I think shape plays a bigger part of the ride more than skills. I know that my skill level makes up tons because I'm out of shape, so, if I didn't have skills I know I'd definitly have to put in more time working out. I know when I've got steam in the engine I can charge at techincal much harder... I know that if you ride with better riders you get better. If it's a cool group they will wait, some. And, help out with a tip or three. Just keep that attitude of when you where little and making new friends on the block and you wanted to be apart of something, keep tagging along and soon enough you'll be up front.

[SAR_boats]

I think what is true with drug users is true for mountain biking: "Get them while they are young and they are yours for life"

Meaning if you can get your kids or what have you into biking at a young age whilst they still think they are indestructable they will be hooked.

Older folk who are noobs are more conservative, scared etc. so they actually think before they huck, which is both good (less broken bones) and bad (second guessing, over correcting, going too slow) and they don't have that youthful energy. Although when they get to a certain age they do have "old man" strength.

As for rating and such, the physical shape of the other riders in the group; big, small, fat, skinny, toothpicks, pear shaped, is a good indicator - pick people who are about the same as you.

Additionally the personality of the other riders is key. Laid-back easygoing types who are out to enjoy nature and get dirty are more likely to be cool with waiting for the anchor to catch up, while type-A, competative riders who see the end of a ride as the only goal and the trail as something to be conquered will either be upset with having to wait or just not wait at all.

BTW - On KidA's scale I am level 2.a.2. - Broken a** whose spirit is willing but the body ain't listening.
Just my 2 cents

[Winger]

Bobzrag - check out Geoladders -- Overview. Look at the scheduled rides and research the riders who are going on the ride before you sign up. Generally, the lower the rank, the better the rider. You can also find out how long the riders take on the trail compared to the average time. That is how I got into biking...I just started out with some scheduled rides...the other riders kicked my butt, but I improved quickly. Even if you end up being slower than the rest, the general rule is that nobody gets left behind.

I still haven't figured out if talking about geoladders is acceptable at this site. I see both sites as complementary rather than competitors.

[scruffylooking]

Kid A - Hilarious scale. I love it.

Apex - Good point on fitness. You can be a former BMX star and have all sorts of bike handling skills but no fitness and therefore can't keep up on even a intermediate ride. Or conversely, a super roadie with a resting heart rate of 30bpm and have no bike handling skills so you can't climb tech stuff or descend without walking.

Fitness is an important factor.

Good discussion ya'll.

[bobzrag]

Thanks for all the input! now don't get me wrong the Path guys were cool about waiting for me while I was doing a lot of tripoding and walking, but I just don't want to slow down a group that might typically go faster.

I'll check out Geoladders as well and here for rides - sounds like I just need to get out and start finding rides and see what rides/groups stick.