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PacMan

Hey all,
I was wondering if anyone here has experience with Kona bikes? I was thinking about buying an '06 Kikapu frame and transferring the parts over from my Jamis. It comes with a non-ProPedal equipped Fox Vanilla coil, but I have a Swinger 3-Way that will fit it, so if I get it, I have a shock that can eliminate some of the pedal-bob.

My main questions are how is the suspension overall--concerning "brake-jack" and pedal bob--how does it perform??

Thanks for any help/info you can give.

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guero

pacman, have you checked out mtbr.com for reviews on it? i know ocrider was borrowing one during the 24hrs of oc. hopefully he can chime in and give you some feedback. i've heard people call them "fake turners", but who cares. when i think kona, i think burly/solid bikes. seems like most of the lower/mid grade models come with pretty crappy components, but the frames themselves seem to be bullet-proof.

from what i understand, brake-jack still exists with the kona, not sure how significant though. at one time i was thinking of getting one of those also, but decided not to. i think you are doing the right thing by replacing that pos fox vanilla coil...kinda weird that they threw a coil shock on an xc bike, they coulda at least stepped on an put a low end fox float r on it or something.

are you getting it from wheel world?

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PacMan

Ya, I was thinking about the Kikapu for $300 because the $400 Kikapu Deluxe comes with a Fox Float R, but according to the guys at Wheelworld, the Float doesn't have ProPedal either--so why bother paying the extra $100 if you aren't getting ProPedal??

I know you can send the Float to Fox and pay to have the ProPedal valving installed, but if I have a Swinger that will fit, it just doesn't make sense to me. I like the Float better than the Swinger, but not enough to shell out an extra $200 overall.

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FoShizzle

Kona's are great bikes. Not sure about the fake turner thing....dont quite get that. as far as i am concerned, they have their own identity. Only Kona I would not recommend is the new Stinky since my friends who rode it at Interbike said the new rockers are horrible in that they kept hitting it with their legs....second hand info but that is what I heard anyway....a shame if true.

My next bike may be a Kona. I think it is a cool company.

Schecky

I agree with Guero. Burly/solid bikes.
Its one of the main brands at the Path.

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guero

i dont get it either, and i do like the kona brand and like the way they have built their identity. i've just heard a turner owner call them "fake turners", so i mentioned it.

before i bought my heckler frame, i was looking at the dawg, but felt the heckler was a little more burly and a had a little more travel. i was actually recently looking at the 07 dawg frames as well, they look pretty tough.

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FoShizzle

hard to beat the Heckler (or Bullit)...they will ALWAYS be killer bikes, period.

yeah, Turner owners probably latch onto the "fake turner" thing post-2005 where Turner moved from Horst to the famous TNT faux-bar.....where mtbr Homers started getting defensive when people said the Turners were now no different than Konas, which is also dumb. Pivots/pivots' locations are only one of MANY parameters that make for the complete bike of course.

Anyway, Konas are sweet...I am looking at one as I type this that may be my next bike come March if I actually do get my very non-deserved promotion that I think I may get.

Cheers

Kid A

as mentioned above speak to the guys at the path as they sell Kona and think a bunch of them ride Coilers and hit it way hard at oaks, etc. (also have a few friends from back east who ride and dig their konas).
Never heard the Turner thing as well but Fo may have shed light on that. Think Kona has some real roots/proven capabilities with riders in BC.
Have heard some issues with brake jack, but think the higher end models have floating brake (brake therepy??? to help..may contribute to other issue Fo shares with rockers hitting? and not sure if really helps).
One thing that is obvious is that on some models they build the same frame and spec it differently to different budgets (primo, dee lux, "standard") and lower end models may lack some decent components.
that said I wanted a big burly rig as a second bike for 5+ years now and just got a stinky for xmas fully recognizing that i will have to replace components as they wear/fail but was probably best way for Santa (wife) to get me into this bike at reasonable price (lower end, '06 model-discounted, etc). I swapped out fork and shifters/derailer for now, but sounds like you are picking frame and swapping parts from old so most of issue is mute for you.

Good luck no matter what you decide

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maxwell

So far I've had a "01 Bear, an "04 Coiler DeLux, an "04 Stinky DeLux (my current LOVE ), an "06 Explosive steel hardtail with a 5 inch travel Roc Shox Revelation, and just picked up a PHD, which is their flat bar road bike.
Lacey rides, and races her "05 Kikapu that came with the Fox Float w/ Pro Pedal, and she loves that bike. My son Jake has an "06 Kikapu, with the Fox Vanilla w/ Pro Pedal, and he loves it. My youngest girl Kaylee rides a "05 Kula, when she's not playing soccer, and she's happy with it.
To date the only one that I have broken was the Bear. It took two years of my abuse, and finally gave on a drop in Moab that they call the diving board. It broke at the chainstay(yes they sent a replacement at no charge), and the very next year, they had beefed it up on the Dawg.
Can you feel my LOVE for this company?
I've ridden my Stinky durring real XC races(and yes it HURT ) epic all day rides, and shuttle runs, and it ROCKS! Right now I am considering swapping my DHX coil for the DHX air, to drop it from 39 to 38 lbs.
If you are looking for a Kikapu, check with they Path. A couple of days ago they still had a couple of "05's left. I'm not sure what size you need, but I think one was a size 20".
Good luck!!

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Pho'dUp

I like Kona too. I had a Kahuna (aka pre-Kikapu). My buddy has a Kikapu too that he likes a lot. And he's had lots of bikes (tracer, 5-spot, stumpjumper). I think the head angle geometry on their bikes is pretty spot on. I'd buy another one. Though, make sure you check out the effective top tube on those frames. I think they run on the shorter side of things.

Oh I saw Maxwell and his green 5" forked Explosif yesterday. Real nice rig.

SScheetz

My wife rides a killer scandium Kona King. It’s their super light weight short travel XC machine. It’s been a great bike, but she’s not very aggressive on the downhill and probably has no idea of what brake-jack is. She is an aggressive climber and has no problem with pedal-bob [FONT=Verdana]with the Fox Float w/ Pro Pedal.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana]I’ve owned a few Kona SS’s, but that’s totally different than what your looking at. They make awesome handling steel rigid frames. Kona has treated me well when problems do arise.[/FONT]

FoShizzle

Brake jack is an exaggerated Marketing term that many have latched on to. Not that it doesnt exist in theory but for Petes Sake.....there are SO MANY parameters that matter on the trail where it counts that to judge based on the theory of much or little brake jack there may be is ridiculous. Horst link is FAR from perfect.....another single parameter that people think cures cancer, or at least some think makes up for all other weaknesses on a bike.

SAR_boats

My advise is this: Get the frame, and build it up simply because Kona makes great frames and stand behind their product. If you notice a problem with brake jack contact Brian at Therapy Components and order a floating brake kit for your frame. (Get it directly from therapy because the kits they produce are not universal, they are based on frame and wheelset) A therapy kit runs about $100 depending on hardware. Plus Brian knows a crapload about bikes and hubsets etc.
Welcome To Therapy Components, Engineering Excellence for Bikes, Auto Racing and Motocross

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PacMan

Ya, I guess I'm not concerned with brake jack as much as I am about possible pedal bob. Hopefully adding a Swinger 3-Way will solve that problem.

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BJammin: Hey Mark, I FYM!!

ECOdork

Had a Kona Steel Frame Hardtail (cindercone?) for many years. I think the pics are still on my STR photoalbum. Was my first "real mtn bike". It didn't come with the greatest components, but upgrades over the years took care of that. It was torture to sell but it's in good hands (fellow STR member). Damn solid frame, a fun bike, and an all round great ride. Been eyeing kona for another frame for some time now. Affordable, solid, etc.

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TURNERob

I can't speak for Kona as I've never ridden one, but I have owned a Weyless 67 (SC Bullit clone) and I will say that brake jack was quite obvious to me....to the point that I quickly sold it. Going down rock gardens/brake bump littered trails at speed, if you got on the rear brakes to scrub some speed you could clearly feel the rear end stiffen up and feel a much harsher ride. Let go of the brake and it smoothed out again. I like to ride pretty aggressively and feeling brake jack is something I could not deal with. Like I said, I can't speak for Kona about that and I doubt the brake jack would be as bad as a single pivot design like the Bullit or Heckler. I also own an '05 Yeti AS-X and it is a single pivot design yet I don't notice any brake jack on it Also with my 3 Turners, never felt any brake jack on them either.

spookydave

Just becasue the rear end stiffens up under braking does not mean you are getting brake jack. some jack and some squat. I do notice my bullit stiffen up but don't really notice it jacking up the rear end that I can't live with. Really I don't notice it jacking at all. But yes my Brooklyn has full floating rear brake and I do notice it's more active under braking. I could add a floater floater to my bullit but to me it's not a problem so why bother.

But what I really notice is most people that bring up brake jack about a certin brand of bike don't even own one. So let me ask, how many of you guys in this thread talking about Kona's brake jake have ever owned one?

I own a horst link bike and hate the way it pedals. so I guess it's kinda a to each their own thing.

TURNERob

True dat Dave, I'd say probably 90% of riders probably wouldn't even notice brake jack or even know what it is. Me personally being a mechanic, I love to tinker with my suspension and am constantly dialing it into perfection. I myself prefer a more active suspension, especially at high speeds and under braking. I personally will sacrifice a very stiff stable platform suspension bike that climbs well for a bike that is more active and plush when descending and I feel the horst link style suspension is the best I've ridden so far for my liking. A lot of folks don't even understand what the knobs and air pressure settings on their shocks really even do which is a shame. For instance dialing in a DHX-air shock can be confusing for some, lots of knobs and air valves to mess with.

On that note, I can say that my Turner 6 Pack rear suspension honestly feels MUCH better descending compared to my AS-X even though the AS-X has about an inch and a half more travel. Most of this is due to the DHX coil being Push'd on my Pack probably, but that rear end soaks up the braking bumps/rock gardens on trails like Lynx and Rock-it so well that I've increased my speed down those trails so much it's downright scary!

Like you said, to each his own. Everyone has their preference and I'd give up a better climbing bike anyday for one that doesn't have noticeable brake jack/stiffening of the rear end under braking. As I mentioned I've never ridden a Kona, but the rear suspension design is similar to Turner's '06 and newer TNT design.......so I can't see that it would be that bad They are nice bikes for the money, but I'd rather pay a little more for a Turner frame that will have better bushing pivots that are serviceable and will more than likely outlast the bike......not to mention they are made in the USA and they have tremendous customer service. Not trying to turn this thread into some Turner vs Kona debate....just looking at some of the prices of Kona frames....I'd look for deals on a Turner and spend a little more. The blowout RFX prices were very enticing and I know a LOT of people took advantage of that. On the other hand, the Kona frames are well liked by most and will make many owners happy......me, I'm just picky that's all

PacMan

Thanks for all the input. That's the reason I posed the question in the beginning. I have never owned a Kona, but I have heard talk about things like brake jack with that design.

As for going high end and spending a little more to get a Turner. Well, not every bike can be a top end ride. The cheapest I have seen Turner frames is $1600. That's $1300 more than the Kona frame I'm looking at. Plus, it's not even going to be my main ride anyway.

Thanks again for all the input

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BJammin: Hey Mark, I FYM!!

spookydave

you need to take my brooklyn for a spin then. Zero pedal feed back both ways due to constant chain lenght. The rear stays totaly active under braking with the floater. Truly awasome on the downhills. When it gets really rough is when it really shines. To bad about the 50 pounds lol, if it could be done in the mid 30's I think it would be a winner. Oh and to bad I don't have the skills to really push it all the way also.

Anyway it's looking pretty nice outside, I'm going to catch a quick ride before the big new years eve party.