Upgrade from 4" to 5.5" Travel Bike?

[G-MONEY]

Hi all-- I'm pondering switching out my 2006 Giant Trance 1 for a 2008 Santa Cruz Blur LT. Essentially I would swap over all my parts from the Trance (XTR derailleurs, shifters, pedals; Mavic Crossmax SL wheelset; RaceFace Deus XC crankset; Avid Juicy Ultimates) over to the Blur with the exception of the fork. Hoping my fellow riders can help with these questions:

1) Is it worth the switch? My Giant is a great bike-- love the way it handles and rides. Where it falls short is when I'm descending stuff like Rock-It and 5 Oaks-- I get smoked by my friends on Yeti 575s. But is it worth it to spend $1850 on a new frame and $685 on a new fork (Fox 32 Float RLC) to go a bit (ok, a lot) faster down this stuff? (My ego says yes, my brain says think about it). Will I really notice a huge difference that would justify shelling out bucks?

2) Should I go for the Fox 32 Float RLC or the 32 Float R? Or, put on a 160 mm fork which the guy at The Bicycle Co suggests? The RLC has got like 3 more areas of adjustability than the R and it has a thru-axle. The price and weight savings seem marginal, but do I need all the bells and whistles of the RLC? And what about the 160mm fork? Seems like overkill.

3) Made in Taiwan? When did Santa Cruz start making stuff out of Taiwan? Thought all the Blurs were made in the US.

4) Are there any other 5.5" bikes I should consider? Turner, Ellsworth? I've heard so many good things about this new Blur LT.

5) The Bicycle Co in Lake Forest is the shop I was gonna do this through. Being a devotee of The Path, thoughts on their reputation? (If The Path stocked Santa Cruz, I'd probably just go with them).

6) Would it be right to ask for any kind of a discount? They are quoting me MSRPs on the frame and the fork as well as $150 build fee.

7) Anything I missed that I should think about for this transaction?

Thanks very much for any and all of your thoughts/suggestions!

[Pain Freak]

5 spot unless you gotta have a single pivot.

[92se-r]

Dude, if your bike is a medium, sell it to my buddy and just buy a new Reign. 6" of travel and climb almost as well as your 4" travel bike. I went from a IH Hollowpoint DW-Link 4.5" bike to a 6" Reign and it climbed identical to it. $1850 for just a frame? Way overrated bike IMO especially for that price. You could easily buy a Reign complete for that price WITH a fork you want. Or, you could get a IH MK3 or IH 6Point4 for that price.

DW-Link > Maestro > VPP. IMO of course.

[Chaos]

WTF dude
No sense in pinching pennies if you're driving around in E9X M3.
Intense, Turner, Santa Cruz etc... just don't settle for another Giant
become a bike snob

[dssgaffler]

1) Is it worth the switch?

That depends on why the Yeti 575s are blowing by you. Is it because you don't feel comfortable going faster because of the front fork travel or because of the rear travel? Or do you hit the brakes more because of fear. I know guys who ride hardtails crazier than other guys will ride 5.5 rear suspension rides.

2) I like the Talas R. I would hate to climb at 140mm.

3) Yea they started outsourcing a few years ago on their Blurs.

4) You should consider all the competitors.

5) The Bicycle Co should be fine.

6) Colorado Cyclist will sell you a Blur LT frame for $1099 so you should not pay MSRP. Incycle sells Santa Cruz and they will build it for $75.

[luna]

Buy the 6point6 at Randall Scott for $2299 sweet specs & dw link.

Get a complete bike for the price of upgrading your bike.

http://www.rscycle.com/2008-Iron-Hor...&category=4959

[Tedroy]

There will be a flood of turner frames for sale soon. The Turner site has frames on sale now! A nice RFX maybe?

[OldDogDan]

You like it. You want it. You can afford it. Go get it!

[Danimal]

Yeti 575's??
You gotta be kidding me.....


OTOH when I went from 4 to 5.75 I havn't looked back.

[jeffj]

Reminds me of riding dirt bikes with my brothers. I was (at leat I thought so) blazing along a ridgetop trail at Gorman on my XL600R and I look to my left and see my older brother completely off the side of the trail riding parallel to me on his CR500 and he's whacking the throttle implying "Come on, let's go!" And then he simply motors away leaving me in a cloud of dust and debris.

We stopped at the end of the trail and I had all kinds of excuses why I couldn't go as fast as he could. Dual sport tires, not as much suspension, etc. He says "Fine, let me ride your bike and you can ride the CR500." We went right back to the same trail, I'm riding as fast as I dare and look over to my left and there he is again (on my XL600R) whacking the throttle, smiling and then sailing off in another cloud of dust and debris.

You can't buy skillz and 'nads. If you're truly getting smoked by your friends on 575's and similar, an inch and a half or so of travel may help, but it's possible that they are just more skilled and/or courageous at descending rough terrain. Not saying it's true in your case, but it's something to consider.

See if you can trade bikes with one of your buddies and if that turns the tables in your favor, then you'll know it is your bike holding you back.

If you just want a longer travel bike to make your rough descending easier, faster than it was and more comfortable, there are lots of worthy bikes costing more and less than the Blur LT. Try as many as possible and get the one that you like best. After that, it's up to you.

[katonk]

Not to nitpick, but your Trance has 4.2 inches of travel.

Have you considered getting some beefier tires and/or going tubeless? Both will give you slightly more travel. The right set of tires will feel like a new bike. That may give you the extra confidence you need on the trail. You may also want to consider a 5 inch fork.

[ArrrKelly]

If you want to upgrade bikes the Blur will be as good as anything else you can buy.

I recommend a Pike or something else with a thru axel. Complicated forks with 5 kinds of adjustment are nice and all but overkill for most of us.

A stiffer bike with slacker geometry will make it easier to bomb steep sketchy stuff. You might gain some time on your fast buddies.

Bike Co seems like they have their sh!t together again, and yea I would ask for a discount.

my .02

[Pato]

Originally Posted by Trance Pilot

1) Is it worth the switch? My Giant is a great bike-- love the way it handles and rides. Where it falls short is when I'm descending stuff like Rock-It and 5 Oaks-- I get smoked by my friends on Yeti 575s. But is it worth it to spend $1850 on a new frame and $685 on a new fork (Fox 32 Float RLC) to go a bit (ok, a lot) faster down this stuff? (My ego says yes, my brain says think about it). Will I really notice a huge difference that would justify shelling out bucks?

There will be a pretty considerable difference. Not so much due to the increase in travel, but moreso because the geometry of the frame. You will be more stable at high speeds at the expense of a slower steering response. Best bet is to take any one of the 5.5" bikes out on a demo. Is it justified is more of a personal question you need to be honest with yourself to answer. If you have the means and the desire then yes, it's a worthwhile upgrade. If you have hungry mouths to feed and this will cut into your available funds then no.

Originally Posted by Trance Pilot

2) Should I go for the Fox 32 Float RLC or the 32 Float R? Or, put on a 160 mm fork which the guy at The Bicycle Co suggests? The RLC has got like 3 more areas of adjustability than the R and it has a thru-axle. The price and weight savings seem marginal, but do I need all the bells and whistles of the RLC? And what about the 160mm fork? Seems like overkill.

If you are more of a downhill oriented rider I'd suggest you consider the Rock Shox Lyric at 160mm. It will slack out the frame even more and handle a bit better. If you prefer a quicker steering response, I'd go with a Rock Shox Pike at 140mm. I personally don't like the feel of the Fox compression damping systems, but you may. If you want to stick with Fox, go with the RLC. I don't feel the lockout is necessary, but compression adjust is worth it to have.

One major item to note is that if you go with either of the Rock Shox forks you will need to get a new front wheel as they are 20mm thru axle forks (which I highly recommend if you are a big fella or like to ride rough stuff). The Foxes use the standard QR axles (unless you go with an 09 which uses a 15mm thru axle not absolutely positive on that though).

Originally Posted by Trance Pilot

3) Made in Taiwan? When did Santa Cruz start making stuff out of Taiwan? Thought all the Blurs were made in the US.

Can't honestly answer that one as I do not know nor am I really that concerned where it is made for the most part.

Originally Posted by Trance Pilot

1)2) Should I go for the Fox 32 Float RLC or the 32 Float R? Or, put on a 160 mm fork which the guy at The Bicycle Co suggests? The RLC has got like 3 more areas of adjustability than the R and it has a thru-axle. The price and weight savings seem marginal, but do I need all the bells and whistles of the RLC? And what about the 160mm fork? Seems like overkill.

3) Made in Taiwan? When did Santa Cruz start making stuff out of Taiwan? Thought all the Blurs were made in the US.

4) Are there any other 5.5" bikes I should consider? Turner, Ellsworth? I've heard so many good things about this new Blur LT.

There are so many choices out there in that category. For 140mm/5.5" frames you should also consider the Pivot Mach 5 (available at the Path) and Ibis Mojo. The Foes FXR is a 165mm/6.5" travel frame, but pedals better than most 130mm/5" bikes so you should take that one into consideration as well. I have an 07 which is only 150mm/6" travel and love the way it handles.

Originally Posted by Trance Pilot

5) The Bicycle Co in Lake Forest is the shop I was gonna do this through. Being a devotee of The Path, thoughts on their reputation? (If The Path stocked Santa Cruz, I'd probably just go with them).

Sorry, but I have no experience with them.

Originally Posted by Trance Pilot

6) Would it be right to ask for any kind of a discount? They are quoting me MSRPs on the frame and the fork as well as $150 build fee.

If this is your first purchase from them I'd look for a better price and see if they'll price match it for you. Did you know The Path offers a 10% discount to STR members?

Originally Posted by Trance Pilot

7) Anything I missed that I should think about for this transaction?

You may also need to get a new front derailleur depending on the new frame. There are different clamp sizes and cage pivot location designs when it comes to them. Another thing, as I have mentioned before, is your from wheel may need to be replaced if you go with a fork with a different style axle. The Crossmax SL is a 9mm QR and, as far as I know, is not convertible. I know the Crossmax ST and XL can be converted to a 20mm thru axle, but not the SL.

All that being said, you need to be honest with yourself. As dssgaffler said, is it really your bike that's holding you back from going faster or is it your skill/fear. If it's you then $3000 into a new frame/fork will only make you marginally faster. If it is the bike then cough up the money and enjoy the newly added speed.

If you are anywhere near 5'6" or so, you can try out any of my bikes. Well, as soon as I have them put back together that is. A couple of them have forks out on rebuild and I should be getting my new frame tomorrow. What ever you decide, good luck and post up the pictures so we can all ogle it.

[G-MONEY]

Originally Posted by katonk

Not to nitpick, but your Trance has 4.2 inches of travel.

Have you considered getting some beefier tires and/or going tubeless? Both will give you slightly more travel. The right set of tires will feel like a new bike. That may give you the extra confidence you need on the trail. You may also want to consider a 5 inch fork.

LOL! I stand corrected! I have 2.1 Panaracer Fire XC Pro tubeless. As for the 5" fork, wouldn't that mess up the geometry?

[Pato]

Originally Posted by Trance Pilot

As for the 5" fork, wouldn't that mess up the geometry?

Well, that depends on what you mean by "mess up". I prefer a more slack geometry so I think that it would be an improvement, but that's just my personal preference though. It will raise your bottom bracket slightly and slow down your steering a tad, but the payoff is more stability at speed and downhills.

You can try going with 2.3" tires like the Hutchinson Spiders or Specialized Eskars. These are pretty high volume tires that may add up to a half inch of travel if run at low pressures. This will give you added perceived travel without changing your geometry.

[G-MONEY]

Originally Posted by jeffj

Reminds me of riding dirt bikes with my brothers. I was (at leat I thought so) blazing along a ridgetop trail at Gorman on my XL600R and I look to my left and see my older brother completely off the side of the trail riding parallel to me on his CR500 and he's whacking the throttle implying "Come on, let's go!" And then he simply motors away leaving me in a cloud of dust and debris.

We stopped at the end of the trail and I had all kinds of excuses why I couldn't go as fast as he could. Dual sport tires, not as much suspension, etc. He says "Fine, let me ride your bike and you can ride the CR500." We went right back to the same trail, I'm riding as fast as I dare and look over to my left and there he is again (on my XL600R) whacking the throttle, smiling and then sailing off in another cloud of dust and debris.

You can't buy skillz and 'nads. If you're truly getting smoked by your friends on 575's and similar, an inch and a half or so of travel may help, but it's possible that they are just more skilled and/or courageous at descending rough terrain. Not saying it's true in your case, but it's something to consider.

See if you can trade bikes with one of your buddies and if that turns the tables in your favor, then you'll know it is your bike holding you back.

If you just want a longer travel bike to make your rough descending easier, faster than it was and more comfortable, there are lots of worthy bikes costing more and less than the Blur LT. Try as many as possible and get the one that you like best. After that, it's up to you.

Appreciate the parable. First, let me clarify-- I actually get consistently "smoked" on technical downhills by one of my Yeti pals. You're totally right to ask- is it the bike or the skillz? Not to toot my own horn, but I'm a pretty competent rider and it's not like I'm crawling down Rock-It or Lynx (5 Oaks is another story ). However, cuz I did want to make sure it wasn't me being timid, I had my faster buddy actually follow me down on Rock-It a few times and he was of the opinion that I was riding my bike on that descent as fast and as efficiently as the bike would allow. Just so you know, my friend is a pretty friggin' fast DH'r. Having also been on a 4" travel bike for years, he said the 5.75" made a huge difference.

The swapping bikes thing is a great idea. But, my buddy is about 6-2 or so and rides a large frame. I'm 5-10 and ride medium. Again, appreciate the food for thought!

Originally Posted by 92se-r

Dude, if your bike is a medium, sell it to my buddy and just buy a new Reign. 6" of travel and climb almost as well as your 4" travel bike. I went from a IH Hollowpoint DW-Link 4.5" bike to a 6" Reign and it climbed identical to it. $1850 for just a frame? Way overrated bike IMO especially for that price. You could easily buy a Reign complete for that price WITH a fork you want. Or, you could get a IH MK3 or IH 6Point4 for that price.

DW-Link > Maestro > VPP. IMO of course.

Yeah-- Giants are a hard value to beat. And the Maestro suspension is brilliant. Just was thinking about trying something different. Appreciate your thoughts.

Originally Posted by Pato

Well, that depends on what you mean by "mess up". I prefer a more slack geometry so I think that it would be an improvement, but that's just my personal preference though. It will raise your bottom bracket slightly and slow down your steering a tad, but the payoff is more stability at speed and downhills.

You can try going with 2.3" tires like the Hutchinson Spiders or Specialized Eskars. These are pretty high volume tires that may add up to a half inch of travel if run at low pressures. This will give you added perceived travel without changing your geometry.

Excellent suggestions. How do you think it would handle going up steep switchbacks with a longer travel fork?

Originally Posted by Chaos

WTF dude
No sense in pinching pennies if you're driving around in E9X M3.
Intense, Turner, Santa Cruz etc... just don't settle for another Giant
become a bike snob

LOL! Yeah, the last thing I need is another new toy!