A little goes a long way

[ApexMan]

Rode Sullivan ridge today and made the return back through Sullivan Canyon. Did a little maintenance..

Before:



After:



I did a handfull of maintenance days last year with a friend on hand or just myself on Red Box/El Prieto, still much more to do there. Then I'd like to turn my attention to the middle Merrill leg.. In the meantime I've started to include in my tools I take along with me a little folding saw, I figured since I don't have a lot of time that as I ride trails and come upon a section that just begs some care I stop and spend 10 minutes and do some work.



Imagine if every rider had a saw and every now and then took a handful of minutes to do a little trail tune up, a good idea I think.

What really made me stop this time was that the line was all wrong to enter this left, well, now things way more clear!

[drclark]

Hey, thats pretty cool. In general, I've kinda wondered how the park officials and land managers feel about people doing "freelance" trail maintenance. Last time I was up on Hollyhock single track and it was pretty overgrown. I was thinking about dragging some tools up there to do some trimming next time I rode. However, after sitting through some of the trail committee meetings regarding palos verdes, I would be worried that the "nature nazis" would describe unsanctioned maintenance as "environmental damage" or "illegal trail building".

Not trying to knock your intentions or efforts. But, from a "PC" point of view, I would think it might be better to participate in an offically sanctioned trail work day run by IMBA/CORBA than to have a bunch of random mountain bikers carrying saws and cutting away vegetation that interferes with a particular line into or out of a corner. After all, us untrained heathans probably don't know the difference between rare or endangered "habitat" and common, nuisance or non-native species....

drc

[ApexMan]

Originally Posted by drclark

Hey, thats pretty cool. In general, I've kinda wondered how the park officials and land managers feel about people doing "freelance" trail maintenance. Last time I was up on Hollyhock single track and it was pretty overgrown. I was thinking about dragging some tools up there to do some trimming next time I rode. However, after sitting through some of the trail committee meetings regarding palos verdes, I would be worried that the "nature nazis" would describe unsanctioned maintenance as "environmental damage" or "illegal trail building".

Not trying to knock your intentions or efforts. But, from a "PC" point of view, I would think it might be better to participate in an offically sanctioned trail work day run by IMBA/CORBA than to have a bunch of random mountain bikers carrying saws and cutting away vegetation that interferes with a particular line into or out of a corner. After all, us untrained heathans probably don't know the difference between rare or endangered "habitat" and common, nuisance or non-native species....

drc

Hmmm, PV... That whole bees nest will never be touched by me, I know about the negative that's happen. Sad.

Umm, I have a friend at Pasadena Cyclery who's in constant contact with rangers in the Angeles Forrest. He's expressed to me to keep him up to date with any cutting I do as the forresty keeps logs of work done. Apparently I'm on some sort of list for free exctract by the sheriff's should I have a mishap because of my VOLUNTEER work.

I use to run alot on the trails above Brookeside Golf Course, I cut back a bunch of brush that was hindering even running out of the wash there. I had numerous dog walkers, a few hikers, and one group of horse riders (which included one sheriff) commend me for taking time to do a little maintenance.

Do not associate my efforts, or my idea, with those who have selfish needs to "modify" trails. I cut brush back to improve visabilty, deter eriosion, and to improve safety. How many times have you had brush conceal a hiker? Or a bush push you to the edge of a trail such the your front wheel washes out?

As far training goes to cut brush, just use common sense. Ever do your own yard work? And for the actual trail part, it's now the pratice to leave a slight angle to the downside of the trail to allow for natural run off as opposed to a level trail and water abatement barries. The latter seem to create ruts during rain. I'm duing maintenence, not building. As for the PC folks out there, have not heard one complaint. So try it I say, don't knock it till you do.

[ebenke]

Sounds like your taking some initiative and doing some responsible work so the rest of can enjoy the trails more. Based upon your pic's, I didn't see it as major impact, other than making the trail a bit more ridable. Heck you've even got the rangers blessing, so I say Great Job!!

[Zippo]

awesome. bravo.

on to the p.o. next...

[Pablomatic]

Just out of curiosity, when you trim off something that size, what do you do with it. Do you just toss it out of the way, or hack it up and set it aside? I think its a great idea as long as nobody crosses the line between maintenance and modification (and as long as the feds agree). Thanks for the info.

Peace

[mtnkitty]

Very cool, ApexMan. I've been whacked many times by overgrown branches, although that might be attributed to poor bike handling skills.

I very much like and appreciate the idea of RESPONSIBLE trail maintenance.

[kanga]

Apex, you've got the right idea. There are several trails in the Angeles that haven't been surveyed and had their retro-active EIR done, and on those trails CORBA isn't supposed to do any tread work, just brush clearing. But as long as it improves safety and sustainability, the rangers are pretty cool and appreciative of what we do.

[OldDogDan]

I appreciate your good intentions and work ethic, but I'm sorry, I find the "before" picture to be much more attractive singletrack. The sight line appears to be unimpeded, so I don't see a safety concern. I like narrow singletrack, and don't mind having to twist and turn a little to miss being grabbed by a bush -- it makes an otherwise flat trail more interesting. Don't take it personally -- but I know there are others that like their trails narrow. You can't please everyone, and I do applaud your willingness to do some work.

[chupacabra]

I was up on Monroe Truck Trail the other day and decided to get some work done as well. I hauled up the BOB with too many tools and cleaned up two corners where both legs were getting whipped by the overgrowth.

I hope to do a little work twice a month. I've talked with the forest service and, at least this individual, was very thankful for the help. He also said that if I was to coordinate a trail maintenance day, he could probably get me some tools to use.

When cleaning a trail, I try to think about how long it will be before I am back cutting the same area back. A little too much is better than not enough, but I sure don't want to make it into a freeway either. Since I'm new fairly new to this, it will take awhile to develop the eye for what to remove and what not to remove.

Here are some samples.

Before


After


Let me know what you think. Suggestions are welcome.

[92se-r]

Sorry, but i cant help but think there was nothing wrong with the before picture. it doesnt look like it was even protruding into the trail and you just widened a singletrack into fireroad width.

I cant help but think that if you rode down in san diego, that you'd be one of the guys trying to 'fix' lpq tunnels. You cant even call tunnels that name anymore in some sections because someone wasnt skilled enough to use some body english to maneuver around the trees. now there are sections where the trail is twice as wide and the trail is completely exposed to the sun, whereas before it had a tree canopy that gave it the tunnels name.

call me an asshole, but no thanks from me. what happened to the mentality of enjoying nature and trying to minimize the impact we had on it? might as well pave the road while you are at it.

[Wrecker]

A few suggestions:

Talk to the ranger about the trail work you'd like to do before you do it and ask if there are any specific things she/he needs/wants. Some plants cannot be moved, only trimmed back, some you can't touch (and some is po so watch out)

The best thing to do, if you really want to get involved with trail stuff is to join a club that does trail maint so you can learn from them, or do an organized event. That way, you know how to keep up a maintainable trail.

Finally, there are some that will NEVER be happy with ANY trail work. You have to know who to listen to and who will always give you crap. If you look at any trail work threads here, there is often flaming and many heated discussions have arisen.

Remember, trails are for everyone, not just the dh'ers and helping to keep up our trails is not only beneficial to us while riding (less ticks, no scrapes, staying on the bike AND continuing to be able to use the trail due to anti-erosion techniques), but also to us when defending ourselves to the rangers when hikers/equestrians complain that we're only a nuisance.

[ApexMan]

Originally Posted by Pablomatic

Just out of curiosity, when you trim off something that size, what do you do with it. Do you just toss it out of the way, or hack it up and set it aside? I think its a great idea as long as nobody crosses the line between maintenance and modification (and as long as the feds agree). Thanks for the info.

Peace

I toss it as far from the trail as possible so when it dries up it's not some brown pile you can see. Careful with your tools though, my little handsaw got dragged out by mistake and went with the branch over the side!

[ApexMan]

Originally Posted by OldDogDan

I appreciate your good intentions and work ethic, but I'm sorry, I find the "before" picture to be much more attractive singletrack. The sight line appears to be unimpeded, so I don't see a safety concern. I like narrow singletrack, and don't mind having to twist and turn a little to miss being grabbed by a bush -- it makes an otherwise flat trail more interesting. Don't take it personally -- but I know there are others that like their trails narrow. You can't please everyone, and I do applaud your willingness to do some work.

I like narrow single track too. This particular trail was once a one lane road decades ago, currently it's the size of a double track on a fairly steep portion. I note where the trail width has been cut and I use that as a guideline, I trim such that 1) I don't have to be back in a couple of years and 2) redirect brush growth upward or away from the trail. To get sun light to all the pretty flowers!

Cupacabra, I think you did a good job. 92se-r is taking a bit out of proportion with the paved road comment. Really, the area you cleared amounts to nothing more to a blip in time when rolling through there. Funny though how it takes a lot of time even for that!

I have an architect in my office who ues to volunteer to patrol the Santa Monica mtns, they had pretty yellow shirts, kinda like ranger cadets. Anyway, he said when they cleared brush up there they would clear it back 15 feet on center. Meaning 7 1/2 feet to each side from the center of the trail. Granted a trail ain't that wide everywhere, he's just saying that was their guideline. So, when I go about my work I don't impact a trail that much, I use this information as a boundary or a rule of thumb.

My intent was to bring an idea to light on what we can give back to the trail, if you are going to be critical then come out with me as I've lots to do yet on Red Box and I'll show you what I've done and let you decide if I get a merrit badge or a finger shaking at my face. I just strap a pair of long clippers to my bike and have a 8" hand saw and gloves, those and a bunch of water go a long way for a good day of maintenance.

[chupacabra]

Originally Posted by 92se-r

Sorry, but i cant help but think there was nothing wrong with the before picture. it doesnt look like it was even protruding into the trail and you just widened a singletrack into fireroad width.

call me an asshole, but no thanks from me. what happened to the mentality of enjoying nature and trying to minimize the impact we had on it? might as well pave the road while you are at it.

This trail is tight enough that we wear shin guards to keep from getting poked and jabbed and bloodied by the end. I love the natural experience as well, but obviously some amount of maintenance needs to be done or some of the trails will totally close in and be lost.

Originally Posted by Wrecker

A few suggestions:
Some plants cannot be moved, only trimmed back, some you can't touch (and some is po so watch out)

The best thing to do, if you really want to get involved with trail stuff is to join a club that does trail maint so you can learn from them, or do an organized event. That way, you know how to keep up a maintainable trail.

Finally, there are some that will NEVER be happy with ANY trail work. You have to know who to listen to and who will always give you crap. If you look at any trail work threads here, there is often flaming and many heated discussions have arisen.

Remember, trails are for everyone, not just the dh'ers and helping to keep up our trails is not only beneficial to us while riding (less ticks, no scrapes, staying on the bike AND continuing to be able to use the trail due to anti-erosion techniques), but also to us when defending ourselves to the rangers when hikers/equestrians complain that we're only a nuisance.

Thanks,
On this removal, I trimmed back some toyon, and removed several buckwheat and artemesia. I try to be sensitive of the plants that I do remove. I have done one group project with corba and I have talked with the forest ranger for the area.