Illegal Trailbuilding...

[R2D2]

Let me say this first...I love singletracks...the legal or illegal kind doens't matter to me!

But lately I have noticed in a certain well frequented San Diego North County riding spot, lots of new singletracks have been carved out.

Is that bad?

Put it this way, besides of attracting the attention of the authorities the trails are ill designed and have no flow to it. If you have ever ridden the Vista trail in La Costa you know what I'm talking about. It's a great example how to build a great singletrack that will stand the test of time.

So please, get a clue or put the shovel away!

[mntbiker12]

Another clue on the trail? I frequent a few and I've noticed my local ride (Vista) has a few new singletracks.

[jakethecake]

haha thats why if im riding something new or something that looks a little meh i grandma down it cuz i have no idea who the hell made the track. Once im done with it thats when i know how much i can after burn down it.

[Solo]

And that's why the place is a hodge podge of trails and so hard to loop into anything meaningful. Add to that, there are no less than 3 different agencies responsible for the place.

Ride at your own risk.

[Jman]

Where in Vista do u ride? My parents live there over off of Osborne (near the Strawberry Fields) and I'd love to drp the kids off while I go ride. I grew up in Vista but wasn't into biking back then (other than to get myself to work in my teens).

[Big Rick]

Oh there's all sorts of legal to semi-legal to outright illegal trails in and around Vista. I've met my share of mountain bikers, hikers, horseback riders, and dirt bikers (moto & mini) on all of them. I do agree that some of the trails that are popping up there are awfully twisty. But that's the great thing about that area, except for the lack of anything over a couple of hundred feet of elevation gain/loss, you can link up the trails into just about any kind of ride you want.

[wheel slayer]

Remember "If you build it they will come"

[evdog]

Originally Posted by wheel slayer

Remember "If you build it they will come"

Also remember "if you talk about it on a public forum it is much more likely to come to the attention of those who can shut it down"

So - while everyone loves finding new trails, building new stuff where you're not supposed to not only makes us look irresponsible as a group, but it increases our chances of getting banned outright.

If you are building trails like this or come across someone who does, please try to get them into the fold with sdmba or similar group. There are plenty of opportunities to build trails that are sanctioned and official, so you can make a positive and constructive contribution rather than one that jeopardizes trail access for everyone else.

[wheel slayer]

I agree too much talk ruins stuff. I would do some sanctioned trail work if they were making something worth hitting, but out my way it's all high seat post weak sauce.

[danlorek]

Originally Posted by evdog

Also remember "if you talk about it on a public forum it is much more likely to come to the attention of those who can shut it down"

So - while everyone loves finding new trails, building new stuff where you're not supposed to not only makes us look irresponsible as a group, but it increases our chances of getting banned outright.

If you are building trails like this or come across someone who does, please try to get them into the fold with sdmba or similar group. There are plenty of opportunities to build trails that are sanctioned and official, so you can make a positive and constructive contribution rather than one that jeopardizes trail access for everyone else.

yeah, cuz there's clearly a lot of sanctioned areas with jumps in the san diego/nc area.

[evdog]

You're right - there aren't a lot of sanctioned areas, but going out and building jumps or trail illegally will eventually cross the land manager's radar. And there is a good chance they will arbitrarily close them.

So not only are the trails gone, but any relationship the bike community has with the land manager will be damaged, if they don't ban us outright. It takes a lot of work to get areas sanctioned so this can really set us back.

Although it takes a lot of time and effort be will be better off in the long term if we are patient and work with land managers. I know for a fact there is some work starting to get a park here like colonnade in Seattle. Adding your voice and your effort will make something like this easier to achieve.

http://www.bbtc.org/colonnade/

[evdog]

Originally Posted by wheel slayer

I agree too much talk ruins stuff. I would do some sanctioned trail work if they were making something worth hitting, but out my way it's all high seat post weak sauce.

Thats true in a lot of places. But keep in mind a lot of land manager's concept of a trail is 10ft wide, flat, and gravel so that soccer moms can go for a jog with the baby stroller. By working with them, even if its on weak sauce x-country stuff you get the opportunity to talk to them about "other" kinds of trails you would like to see. In some cases it may fall on deaf ears but you might be surprised.

The trail superintendent from the Forest Service told us at the last trail day at Noble that they are looking into setting up a dedicated DH trail. They aren't going to come up with that all by themselves, so I would credit the work we've done with them, the resulting relationship, and the fact we've been telling them what we want for several years. So it is possible.....

[OldDogDan]

Well, the new trails you're talking about are pretty visible. Because of the multi-agency, no funding, legal issues etc, there is not much to no enforcement going on (some on the south by DFG I hear). Many would say there ought to be. Some new trails are nice, some are unnecessary connectors and add nothing, in fact detract. JMan, next time you're back in Vista to see the folks, head over to Calaveras for a local spot to ride. Check MTB Bill's website if you don't know it. It's just as bad and just as good as people say. A destination out-of-towners will want to hit? No. A convenient local spot with lots of variety? Yes. Overused and abused? Yes, not just by bikes. I've been going there for 35 years and still enjoy it -- but then it's local.

[PacMan]

Originally Posted by OldDogDan

Well, the new trails you're talking about are pretty visible. Because of the multi-agency, no funding, legal issues etc, there is not much to no enforcement going on (some on the south by DFG I hear). Many would say there ought to be. Some new trails are nice, some are unnecessary connectors and add nothing, in fact detract. JMan, next time you're back in Vista to see the folks, head over to Calaveras for a local spot to ride. Check MTB Bill's website if you don't know it. It's just as bad and just as good as people say. A destination out-of-towners will want to hit? No. A convenient local spot with lots of variety? Yes. Overused and abused? Yes, not just by bikes. I've been going there for 35 years and still enjoy it -- but then it's local.

It is interesting to me that some trails get such a bad rap and people act like they are totally lame and wonder why anyone would ride there, etc.

Well, just like not every movie is a blockbuster (but we watch them anyway, don't we), not every trail is an awesome, "destination" MUST ride. Some places are just fun for locals and are nice to have around to break up the monotony a bit. I'd say the majority of trails, no matter the city/county aren't worth driving more than 30 minutes to.

Also, I've always thought that a trail is only as boring as the rider, or as boring as you make it. With a little imagination, even "lame" trails can be fun--and I'm not talking about illegal trail building to make it more fun.

If you own more than one bike, roll a different bike there. I've ridden some of the more "lame" trails here in SD on everything from my 23 pound rigid SS to my 42 pound 7" travel freeride bike--just to mix it up and make it more interesting.

If you are riding with friends, play "follow the leader", with the leader taking the most effed up line possible, and everyone has to follow.

These are just a couple examples of ways I have found to mix it up a bit. Not every trail has to be some crazy DH-huckfest. I can't add anymore to what Evdog already wrote--illegal trails in a legal trail system are bad, no matter where they are and why they're there to begin with.

[Solo]

Originally Posted by PacMan

1) It is interesting to me that some trails get such a bad rap and people act like they are totally lame and wonder why anyone would ride there, etc.

2) Some places are just fun for locals and are nice to have around to break up the monotony a bit.

3) Also, I've always thought that a trail is only as boring as the rider, or as boring as you make it. With a little imagination, even "lame" trails can be fun--and I'm not talking about illegal trail building to make it more fun.

1) It's because we're all too jaded and forget what it was like the first time we rode there.

2) Bingo, you just answered your first question.

3) I like to rip around my local trails going "BRRAAAPP!!" (especially coming out of corners) to make them more interesting. Uh yeah, it's not hard to know it's me coming.

I think the moral of the story is don't build trails where you don't have permission from the owner or regulating agency - especially if you don't know WTF you are doing.

Get involved, get permission, get help and let's go build some sick trails for all to enjoy.

[wheel slayer]

If they want to stop illegal trails they should ban the sail of shovels, and we can all turn in our shovels to be destroyed. I'm not talking about those Forte platform pedals you get at Performance Bike Shops I use them.
edit
Oh one more thing I do my building on my own property, and Ive been to San Diego twice to ride my bike. I did a criterium in Lemon Grove 27 years ago an I rode ATT a few months back And I'm in no rush to head back.

[PacMan]

Umm. OK. Not sure where that came from, but, umm, OK. Peace dude. No one here was casting any stones as far as I could tell.

[art23rockpile]

Originally Posted by wheel slayer

If they want to stop illegal trails they should ban the sail of shovels, and we can all turn in our shovels to be destroyed.

SHOVELS don't build illegal trails, PEOPLE do!

[DBD]

Originally Posted by art23rockpile

SHOVELS don't build illegal trails, PEOPLE do!

Correct. So we need to have background checks, licenses AND a 10 day cooling off period.