New Trail Approved in the San Gabriels

[art23rockpile]

Steve and Hans, good work! This is exciting news with good implications for the future. I'd be willing to volunteer my time (whenever possible). And FWIT, i'm a professional carpenter, so feel free to contact me should you have any questions regarding the shaping/fastening of wood.

[El Presidente]

Originally Posted by art23rockpile

Steve and Hans, good work! This is exciting news with good implications for the future. I'd be willing to volunteer my time (whenever possible). And FWIT, i'm a professional carpenter, so feel free to contact me should you have any questions regarding the shaping/fastening of wood.

We will certainly take you up on that!

[roach]

Originally Posted by kanga

The "Rock & Rail Trail", as the new trail will be officially known, will be approximately 1 mile long, running from near the summit of Mt. Hillyer northward to near the junction of the Santa Clara Divide Trail and the existing Mt. Hillyer Trail. This will make it easy to do loops of the trail and to "session" it's features.

CORBA's new trail proposal included mountain bike specific features such as log rides, bermed turns, boulder gardens, granite slick-rock, teeter-totters, log bridges, drops and jumps. While it will be designated as a multi-use trail, the trail has been designed by mountain bikers as a technical skill-building trail.

Trail features will be optional and graded in difficulty, allowing riders to gradually build up their skills. Signs will indicate advanced or difficult lines, intermediate options, and alternative bypasses for beginners and other trail users.


CORBA will need to raise approximately $82,000 in grants and donations to fund the project. Several grant applications have already been submitted and are being considered, and CORBA has committed $6500 from its general fund, and an additional $1000 has been received in private donations. The funds will be used to purchase tools, materials, machinery, fuel, signage, a kiosk and for other expenses involved in the construction. We hope to break ground on the trail in fall 2008, and be riding it next spring and summer.

For news and updates on the Mount Hillyer Project go to: http://www.corbamtb.com

WHY?
Another playground proposal? That’s great, but please keep it out of the San Gabriels. Find a freeway underpass, vacant lot or abandon warehouse for your $$pricey endeavor. There are already trails all over the Hillyer, Chilao, Charlton area. Deadfall Structures? WHY? Mountain biking isn’t challenging enough? Trail riding isn’t fun enough? We have to build a rollercoaster right next to an existing epic singletrack? Why?
What’s wrong with CORBA? Thousands of dollars and manhours for a childish playground in one of the most scenic areas of the Gabriels? CORBA, why not actually work on trails that need it, i.e. Stone Cyn, Trail Cyn, Barley Flats, Alder Creek….
We’ve been brushing those trails for years but don’t have the resources CORBA has. It is painful to see CORBA willing to splurge such heavy resources on a playpen for riders who are sick of trail riding.

[sdyeti]

Here we go again

Let's keep the drama out of this please.

[cjwally]

Why ask Why? WHY?

[1080P]

Originally Posted by sdyeti

Here we go again

Let's keep the drama out of this please.

Let the person have his say... you are more than welcome to disagree with him, there are multiple points of view to every improvement or development. The issue comes down to "Best Use" of the land for the most amount of users.

As El Pres would say "you should thank the Sierra Club for building hiking trails, without them, we'd have nothing to ride on." These same hiking trails became "multi use" trails that we now ride on on bikes with motorcycle like suspension.

Is it a theme park on USFS property, or does it better belong on a Resort property like up in BC?

I ask the question, I don't have the answer. I do think that without a car and 4, 5 or $6 a gallon gas, there is no way to do a one day ride up there. Driving up there isn't doing the environment any good from a green, environmentalist point of view.

Is it better to bring the bike park to the riders in the city versus the riders in the city to the bike park in the mountains?

I'm just asking questions, everyone can form their own answer or opinion.

[sdyeti]

Yes, but his tone/post was sarcastic in nature.

Respectful debate is one thing. I think your points are respectful/constructive and fit well within the confines of this post. The other poster started with "Another playground proposal?" He's asking for an argument.

[1080P]

Originally Posted by sdyeti

Yes, but his tone/post was sarcastic in nature.

Respectful debate is one thing. I think your points are respectful/constructive and fit well within the confines of this post. The other poster started with "Another playground?" He's asking for an argument.

Respectfully, sdyeti, I disagree. More to the point, the individual is asking hard questions that require thoughtful answers, not spin or avoidance. The kind of questions Barbara Walters asks so well and gets truthful answers.

It all depends on your perspective... I call it debate, you call it an argument. Why is it an argument?

I can guarantee you if the Sierra Club or the Center for Biological Diversity, or any other EnvironMENTAL Liberal organization got a hold of this... Western arroyo toads, Mountain yellow legged frogs, horned toads, snakes, plant life, subspecies, EIR's and who knows what else will be used as road blocks. I know for a fact that Mt. Hillyer is a headwaters source that drains into the West Fork of Littlerock Creek, an Environmentally Sensitive area closed off to the public so that an endangered species of toad can survive and be prevented from going extinct.

Then again, someone may see this as building an Attractive Nuisance in a pristine wilderness area. Attractive Nuisances are those little improvements and developments that attract the non fee paying throngs of people, looking for a thrill or E ticket ride, which then requires the installation and maintenance of all the infrastructure like trash cans, graffiti covered outhouses with no toilet paper, and park tables and benches with the latest gang graffiti carved with a pocket knife into the table top or bench surface, that your $5.00 parking ticket for no Adventure Pass (that no one ever pays, they place it in a circular file) is supposed to cover. I've not seen the outhouse or restroom conditions improve one bit since the requirement of an Adventure Pass fee. Where does the money go?

I'd like to see more points of view and an open, transparent discussion before I decide what I feel is best use for that part of Angeles National Forest.

Which kind of makes me wonder, when was this discussion held with Angeles National Forest, and when was the public input period for this project sought?

Be careful for what you wish for, some things are better left being hard to find hidden gems, lest the masses and overuse destroy them. This is something that Land Use Managers in, LA, SD and OC constantly have to deal with when they have closures, as well as poaching issues when things are closed due to, say, fire hazards, road conditions, or avalanche hazards.

[Burner]

who signed up as "No Thanks" ???? CLASSIC!!!!!!

[sdyeti]

M'kay. I'm done.

Originally Posted by 1080P

Respectfully, sdyeti, I disagree.

[cjwally]

Originally Posted by Burner

who signed up as "No Thanks" ???? CLASSIC!!!!!!

I thought the same thing....

[JoeTruth]

I saw that and thought, "wow, that's great!"

Looks like a S. Clubber found STR. Boo birds not welcome!

Originally Posted by Burner

who signed up as "No Thanks" ???? CLASSIC!!!!!!

[sdyeti]

Actually it doesn't disagree with my point of view.

Originally Posted by 1080P

It all depends on your perspective... I call it debate, you call it an argument. Why is it an arguement? Because it might disagree with your point of view?

[G-Ride]

Originally Posted by roach

Mountain biking isn’t challenging enough? Trail riding isn’t fun enough?

To a lot of riders, sometimes no.

Originally Posted by roach

It is painful to see CORBA willing to splurge such heavy resources on a playpen for riders who are sick of trail riding.

CORBA spends plenty of resources on many other trail projects used by the majority of the riding population. I, for one, think it's a good thing that they are finally building something for the ever-growing population of riders who enjoy something more challenging.

It always amazes me when people automatically categorize something as bad simply because they don't personally enjoy, appreciate, or understand it themselves. It's one trail. It's not like these are popping up everywhere.....or anywhere, for that matter.

[El Presidente]

Originally Posted by 1080P

Respectfully, sdyeti, I disagree. More to the point, the individual is asking hard questions that require thoughtful answers, not spin or avoidance. The kind of questions Barbara Walters asks so well and gets truthful answers.

It all depends on your perspective... I call it debate, you call it an argument. Why is it an arguement? Because it might disagree with your point of view?

I can guarantee you if the Sierra Club or the Center for Biological Diversity, or any other EnvironMENTAL Liberal organization got a hold of this... Western arroyo toads, Mountain yellow legged frogs, horned toads, snakes, plant life, subspecies, EIR's and who knows what else will be used as road blocks. I know for a fact that Mt. Hillyer is a headwaters source that drains into the West Fork of Littlerock Creek, and Enviromentally Sensitive area closed off to the public so that an endangered species of toad can survive and be prevented from going extinct.

Then again, someone may see this as building an Attractive Nuisance in a pristine wilderness area. Attractive Nuisances are those little improvements and developments that attract the non fee paying throngs of people, looking for a thrill or E ticket ride, which then requires the installation and maintenance of all the infrastructure like trash cans, grafitti covered outhouses with no toilet paper, and park tables and benchs with the latest gang graffitti carved with a pocket knife into the table top or bench surface, that your $5.00 parking ticket for no Adventure Pass (that no one ever pays, they place it in a circular file) is supposed to cover. I've not seen the outhouse or restroom conditions improve one bit since the requirement of an Adventure Pass fee. Where does the money go?

I'd like to see more points of view and an open, transparent discussion before I decide what I feel is best use for that part of Angeles National Forest.

Which kind of makes me wonder, when was this discussion held with Angeles National Forest, and when was the public input period for this project sought?

Be careful for what you wish for, some things are better left being hard to find hidden gems, lest the masses and overuse destroy them. This is something that Land Use Managers in, LA, SD and OC constantly have to deal with when they have closures, as well as poaching issues when things are closed due to, say, fire hazards, road conditions, or avalanche hazards.

This is not a theme park we are talking about here. It will basically be some rocks and logs lying around on the side of the trail. You can ride them or stay on the primary line of the trail. This is the ideal area because there are a lot of rocks and logs laying around!

Those of you that feel this is not your thing no problem you do not have to ride the new trail or new features added to the existing trail. Many people around here do not really get this type of riding. If you have never been exposed to it how could you?

You don't really think the Forest Service would have given us approval with out the proper studies being completed do you? Why do you think it took almost a year to get the approval?

[dstepper]

I think we need a editorial column/forum for 1080P so he can have a place to practice his writing skills. Something like letter to the editor. Or maybe just a monthly news letter keeping the troops in line.

I want to be a cowboy someday, ride the open range without trail access issues.

Dean