random thoughts/can of worms

[thephat]

This is just a thought that crossed my mind this morning. It is not meant as a well thought out position, but as food for thought and discussion. There has been a lot of discussion on this board and others lately about the problem of ilegal trails. Many of us who consider ourselves advocates for MTB access have tried to to help with efforts to keep folks off illegal trails. So here is my question: Is it a conflict of interest for somone who is an advocate for MTB access to be concerned with enforcement of trail closures?

[Fired Yo Momma]

Too early in the morning for me to be thinking about that

[Dino Brown]

I agree with Tani on the matter!

[Code Blue]

Originally Posted by Dino Brown

I agree with Tani on the matter!

I agree with FYM

[slowSSer]

Originally Posted by thephat

So here is my question: Is it a conflict of interest for someone who is an advocate for MTB access to be concerned with enforcement of trail closures?

Originally Posted by Dino Brown

I agree with Tani on the matter!

how PC of you

edit: removed original post- i need more coffee before i reply

[denmother]

My momma done trained me well, if you're gonna ride illegal trails, don't fly 'ya team colors!!!

P.S. And remember to post your photos on secret web sites/forums only.

[Dino Brown]

Originally Posted by slowSSer

how PC of you
edit: removed original post- i need more coffee before i reply

Why edit the original post? I agreed with you 100%!

In large part to "your" act of POLITACL CORRECTNESS, I am removing my "THANKS" from your post!
....PC enough for you!

[slowSSer]

Originally Posted by thephat

So here is my question: Is it a conflict of interest for someone who is an advocate for MTB access to be concerned with enforcement of trail closures?

ok, let's try this again. coffee's working now, i think

a- you're a trail advocate
b- you're concerned about enforcement of trail closures/ getting caught riding trails that are illegal.

basically, no, it's not a conflict. they sort of go hand-in-hand, at least the way I have it broken down.

BUT, as was mentioned, IF you're going to go ride questionable trails that you think might be enforced on that day, the wearing of "team colors" (advocacy group jersey, shop jersey) might cause more problems than good, because "the fuzz" will be able to associate a group with illegal activities.

Originally Posted by Dino Brown

Why edit the original post? I agreed with you 100%!

In large part to "your" act of POLITICAL CORRECTNESS, I am removing my "THANKS" from your post! PC enough for you!

cool! I've been un-thanked! Foo- watch out!!!

it was removed as it didn't directly address Tani's question and it wasn't worded the best. I lost myself re-reading it and I type for a living!

edit:
Tani:
it's not a can of worms at all- it's actually a very good ethics discussion related to our sport. let's hope that people can keep their wits about them and reply with thought...except you, Dino.

[Permagrin]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]I think it’s hard to fight for trail access if you don’t defend your trails whether they’re open or closed. It shows you respect the closures and decisions that are (currently) out of your hands while at the same time showing your commitment to retain the access we currently have and use that leverage and information to open more trails in the future through public awareness.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[mtnbikerfred]

Just remember:

When poaching trails with a group, scatter and run if someone yells "Hi Dad" or you see a ranger. If you're the one who gets popped, you don't know those other guys. Explain that you just met them and followed them down this cool trail you didn't even know was here.... what do you mean it's illegal?? It's in a park. How could a trail in a park be illegal!? In fact, one of those guy just gave you this cool jersey to wear. You definitely don't know any of them. Mentioning Andy's name WILL NOT help.

[slowSSer]

Originally Posted by mtnbikerfred

Just remember:

When poaching trails with a group, scatter and run if someone yells "Hi Dad" or you see a ranger. If you're the one who gets popped, you don't know those other guys. Explain that you just met them and followed them down this cool trail you didn't even know was here.... what do you mean it's illegal?? It's in a park. How could a trail in a park be illegal!? In fact, one of those guy just gave you this cool jersey to wear. You definitely don't know any of them. Mentioning Andy's name WILL NOT help.

cover for your bros? I like it!

[maxwell]

"Now remember, when things look bad and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you got to get mean. I mean plumb, mad-dog mean! Cause if you lose your head and you give up, then you neither live nor win. That's just the way it is."


I like to ride trails.
And, I've seen in the past that some legal trails(areas) get closed, and then made illegal.

"Somebody left the door open and the wrong dogs came home"

So that makes the legal, illegal, and I guess we can hope that someday the illegal will be legal, so I guess I just like to trail ride!

"Well, it's what people know about themselves inside that make them afraid."

[dstepper]

I do not understand the criteria used to make a trail legal or not…seems arbitrary to me. Yes I advocate for more access; since I don’t see why many trails are closed it’s hard for me to get behind enforcement. Does that mean I condone poaching, that is a question each will have to answer on their own. Social pressure against riding illegal trails works on some, it encourages others.

Illegal trail use is an ongoing problem here in Laguna Beach. I would love to see many of the illegal trails become part of the legal trail system; some of those trails existed before the county took control of Laguna Wilderness Park. We have an underground bike culture in Laguna Beach that will never conform and will always add new more hidden trails. I do not look at the hills around Laguna as some special “Wilderness Area” it was a cattle ranch for years. To limit park use to day time hours and restrict use in my mind goes against the intent of having parks. I know JamR and Chopper work hard at getting more trails on line and it must be a frustrating endeavor being in the middle…there is no way that they are going to keep people happy.

I don’t know the answers, my personnel answer was to move on…I spend most of my riding time and do trail work in the San Gabriel’s. People will do what people do, some will obey others will rebel….personal decision.

To the Question: Conflict of interest maybe, depends how you look at the problem.

Dean

[ChariotsOfTires]

Hmm, if the Peeps in charge say it’s closed, then we should respect the authority they have and not ride them. Riding them will push them further away from reopening said trails for us to legally ride.
There is an article in the Latest Bike Magazine about a trail in Colorado (searched online for the link, but couldn't find it), where the local MTB Club got into the political fray and was able to reopen a trail after 10 years by helping to have MT. Bike friendly people elected to the City Board.

"So here is my question: Is it a conflict of interest for someone who is an advocate for MTB access to be concerned with enforcement of trail closures?"

The answer is that this is absolutely not a conflict of interest. In fact I think that being an advocate for MTB should result in one being concerned with the legality and enforcement of trails closed. The two go hand and hand. We, who view the sport as a privilege, are here to be an advocate for the sport. Riding illegal trails further alienates us to the community outside of Mt. Biking.
I am concerned about our sport and avoid any trails that are known to be closed.

I grew up skateboarding and we were considered vandals for the damage our skating did to property. It wasn't until people started advocating skate parks in cities that the view of skateboarding started to change.

[Cowgirl]

As an advocate for open access I too find that more and more trails are being closed or deemed "illegal"...as a shop owner and member of advocacy groups I make sure I stay on the legal trails....but I will fight tooth and nail to get more trails for access....

I think the more of us that step up and fight for what we want the more the parks and counties will listen...at Santiago Oaks they tried to close many of our trails and because we have all been fighting and explaining our rights and asking for answers they are listening and our trails will be opened back up.

Take the steps to try and get a trail deemed legal....if it doesn't work out, then at least you can say you tried.

[Zippy]

Your question assumes that the person advocating trail access also rides trails off limits to MTB'ers. That took me a second to realize since it doesn't make sense that someone advocating trail access would do that. By now you've undoubtedly realized my answer to your "hypothetical" question.

I think it's a conflict of interst to ride closed trails if you're trying to keep trails open to MTB'ers. Respecting trail closures shows park rangers and politicians that we're law-abiding citizens worthy of consideration when questions about trail access come up. The less we get busted riding closed trails and the more trail maintenance we do ,the more likely trails will remain open.

Politicians make the rules...as much as that sucks...and we need to convince them we're responsible enough NOT to ruin what we have and that we're a big enough group of trail users that we deserve access to more areas.

Be the reason stuff stays open or gets re-opened, NOT the reason stuff gets closed. Don't poach...Please...