XT Hydro Disc Brakes vs. Ultimate's vs. Formula's...

[tkblazer]

hopes on my niner and J7's on my forgotten FS bike... love the pimpness of the hopes and stopping power is very nice with the Mono M4 up front and mono mini rear.. i have the older ones so install is not easy since you have to mess with shims and such.. however they have gone to the normal post mount - is adaptor for the newer brakes.
J7's i've never had any problems with ever except swapping pads was a pain in the butt for me... modulation and power is awesome... i have straitline levers with these and love them.

[Chewyeti]

Originally Posted by jschwart73

Actually, braided jackets do their job quite well - If the hose itself expands when the brakes are pulled, the braid will help to contain this expansion, allowing more energy to be spent pushing out the brake piston instead of stretching the hose from the inside.

The question is how much expansion we see with MTB brakes, but I know that on motorcycles, braided lines make a HUGE difference.

That is what i am saying. I doubt the expansion is even felt. (its in your head : )

just my opinion. The expansion is next to nill i am betting.

[mechmann]

Originally Posted by Chewyeti

I believe that statement is highly unsubstantiated. (BS)

you do realize most SS braided hoses are just a jacket over the same teflon/plastic hose lining?

PROVE to me how a different line would effect brake performance. I bet both hoses have the same PSI rating. I doubt the brand new plastic line was 'bulging' under pressure and not delivering full 'power' to the caliper.

the POWER of brakes comes from the master cylinder... not the lines.

Sorry.... i believe you are severely misinformed.

so sorry. i am not sure you have the credentials to challenge me.

honestly, i don't have to prove it. they were my brakes before SS lines and after SS lines. i know that the difference in feel and power was significant.

before purchasing the braided lines i did bleed the brakes and it didn't help. after installing the SS lines and bleeding them there was a marked improvement.

i will give you some engineering terminology... the modulus of elasticity for SS is far superior to that of the plastics used in brake lines.

*the mechanical engineer takes a bow*

[jschwart73]

Originally Posted by Chewyeti

That is what i am saying. I doubt the expansion is even felt. (its in your head : )

just my opinion. The expansion is next to nill i am betting.

Are you betting, or do you have real data to prove your point?

You call BS on someone, but you back up your call with BS? NICE!

[drew12]

I currently have the Formula Bianco's on my Yeti. Great modulation, and have never needed more than one finger to stop, even when locking up on fast downs. The high polish of these is an added bling factor, and are extreemly light.

The Hope Mono Mini's are on my Intense Tracer ( yah, apx 4-5 yrs old) and are very reliable ( did lose a brake pad pin once, and now carry a spare). They have some pump up on down hills, and I do use 2 fingers when locking up. But don't get me wrong, they are light and reliable.

Given your criteria, your best off skipping the XC oriented Mono Minis, and go with something that has more stopping power.
Can't go wrong with the formula's ! ( made in Italy, so you'll also get that European look that the ladies swoon over! )

[Chewyeti]

i challenged a statement. And bet on it. (and i would be all too happy to eat my words too)

Again, just an opinion, and i would love to see the data on the expansion of both lines.

sorry for ruffling feathers.

[sdyeti]

I have been running the 08 XTs on my Yeti and my Socom for several months now (got them back in August). I really, really like the brake feel on the Shimanos. For a while, I had Hayes on my DH bike...not any more.

The only other brakes I've used were Juicys and IMHO, I didn't like them. Brake feel was weird.

[mntbiker12]

Try the Hopes!

I have them on my Spot and they are ultimate 'set it and forget it' component.

I recently went to a larger rotor in the front and it does help us, ahem...larger fellows.

[Chewyeti]

Originally Posted by mechmann

so sorry. i am not sure you have the credentials to challenge me.

honestly, i don't have to prove it. they were my brakes before SS lines and after SS lines. i know that the difference in feel and power was significant.

before purchasing the braided lines i did bleed the brakes and it didn't help. after installing the SS lines and bleeding them there was a marked improvement.

i will give you some engineering terminology... the modulus of elasticity for SS is far superior to that of the plastics used in brake lines.

*the mechanical engineer takes a bow*

sorry to go off tangent again, but what i implied was that the difference between the 2 lines is what i would call negligible.

here is a little article from a brake manufacturer for cars on ss braided vs rubber lines.

Well, the first hose we tested was an old and worn rubber hose (which appears to be the original part from a ’65 Ford Mustang). In static conditions, this hose had an OD of 10.76mm and, when pressurised, it expanded to 11.02mm. An increase of 2.4 percent.
Next, we tested a brand new rubber hose. The new hose had a 10.47mm OD which expanded to 10.65mm when pressurised. An increase of 1.7 percent.
The final test was a new braided steel brake line. In static conditions, the braided line had an OD of 6.45mm and expanded to 6.49mm when pressurised. An increase of less than 1 percent.
So what can we conclude from this?


Well, yes, a braided steel brake line does give less expansion under pressure than a rubber hose - but the margin is extremely small. And keep in mind that these tests were conducted at more than double the pressure you might generate in a real-world situation. So the difference between braided steel and rubber brake hoses is extremely, extremely small..

didnt mean to step on your toes.

Happy braking to all, no matter what lines you choose

[tkblazer]

don't mean to intrude in the online cock fight, but i would assume that even though there is a small scientific difference in expansion of the lines, the real world feel of the brakes does make a difference.

[jschwart73]

Less than 1% compared to 1.7% is at least 58% less expansion.

You can twist numbers to suit whatever you want...

[DeeZee]

Originally Posted by jschwart73

Less than 1% compared to 1.7% is at least 58% less expansion.

You can twist numbers to suit whatever you want...

Me thinks you would "feel the fade" from heat (pad and rotor) before the brake line expanding.

But then again some people think they can feel the difference in 1 psi tire pressure.

[mechmann]

Originally Posted by Chewyeti

sorry to go off tangent again, but what i implied was that the difference between the 2 lines is what i would call negligible.

here is a little article from a brake manufacturer for cars on ss braided vs rubber lines.


didnt mean to step on your toes.

Happy braking to all, no matter what lines you choose

your initial comment seemed snarky, hence my snarky comeback...

in think the difference in diametrical expansion might have been downplayed in the car scenario. they fail to mention that a slight increase in localized diameter equates to a significant amount of volume when you do the math to find the volume change (Pi*D^2*L). something to remember also, in a car you are dealing with a much larger master cylinder and your foot (not so sensitive). in our bike brake systems we have a much smaller master cylinder and a shorter throw which equates to a more sensitive system. that article also fails to take into account the longitudinal expansion of the tubing, something that is harder to measure, but qualitatively i have verified that the plastic brake lines expand longitudinally by squeazing hard on the brakes and noting how the brake line moves in the cable stops.

so what does all that mean? it means that the stainless lines give better power and feel. it means that maybe you won't notice it till you are riding a DH bike at very high speeds on a high traction surface.

hope all that helps to clear this mess up.

[Chewyeti]

I totally agree with ya, just dont think most people can feel the difference

[tkblazer]

now i know why you were called Cranium

[sdyeti]

Thanks for including the translation for me!!

Originally Posted by mechmann

so what does all that mean?

[jschwart73]

Nerds.

[Waldo]

Originally Posted by DeeZee

But then again some people think they can feel the difference in 1 psi tire pressure.

What...you can't?

[dutch]

as far as brakes go.... regardless of lines.

i'm still running my hayes 9s and i like them, they're noisy during slow speed braking (doesn't happen too much, mostly just modulation on sketchy climbs), but I've liked their power on the DH. i run 6" rotors and am only about 145 with gear, so that might be different than yours or anyone else's experience. They're way cheap if you find 'em on sale.

that being said, if and when I build my hardtail, I'm going full XT, including brakes, I've test-ridden them a bit and they feel absolutely great.

[DeeZee]

Originally Posted by Waldo

What...you can't?

I am a n00bie

However I can tell the diffence between a 600g and 601g tires