Camera of choice

[Shu]

Evdog...
K20D is already out and is in the $1500 range comapred to the K10D at $800
Check out this link
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp?method=sidebyside&cameras=pentax_ k10d%2Cpentax_k20d&show=all

[evdog]

Something else the guy in the shop liked about the K10D was that it still had a separate display on the top of the camera which shows certain settings, while the Rebel and D40 no longer have those as they tried to reduce the body size. Without it you need to poke around in the menus on the LCD screen to see what the settings are. I think the D70 does have that display.

[jeffj]

Originally Posted by Shu

What type of shooting do you want to do most of the time?Vacations

What other types of shooting do you want to do?action

What do you plan to do with the pics? Prints? Large prints? Web?no prints larger then 8x1o...web

How picky are you about image quality?as good or a little better then my p&s....I don't need a 10pixel camera 6 will work

What does your p&s not do that you want to do?adjustability....able to add filters/change lenses

What is your budget for the camera?less then a grand w/ a lens or 2 and tax and shipping(if nesessary)

What is your budget for lenses?will buy upgrade lenses as needed

Is your budget flexible at all? nope the amount of pics I will take won't justify more then a grand

How often do you plan to shoot?had to tell depoends on how many vacations I take and if I get the bug to shoot more stuff at home...I will take mtnbike shots at races and the like when I'm not riding

Would you be willing to pay a premium for some amount of weather sealing?doubt it

I like the idea of the Nikon D40 b/c it's geared towards the beginner photographer....which I am..I took a couple photo clases in HS(long ass time ago) so I kind of remember the basics...

I found this.....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=002

First of all, excellent post by Wheezy. I think I've seen some of his posts on DPReview too. Great info to consider.

Since I am much more familiar with Canon, that's what I'll focus on. Jordan is another excellent resource for Canon info. I won't badmouth brands other than the big two (C & N), but I would just suggest that you'll have a much easier time finding compatible lenses, support from other knowledgeable users and other accessories if you stick with them.

Based on your answers, I think I would go with this combo:

http://www.canogacamera.com/detail.aspx?ID=38279

Your budget for starters puts you right in this category unless you were to consider used, which may not be advisable for a DSLR newbie without competent counsel.

The XTi is very capable of providing what you asked for, but since Canon is replacing this model, it is discounted pretty heavily right now.

The lens selection is where things get tricky.

I own the EF-S 17-85 IS and can tell you that it is a much better lens than many give it credit for. A lot of people that malign it are relatively inexperienced photographers that tend to blame their issues on their gear instead of learning to use it properly. Then they buy expensive lenses and finally figure out that you have to learn to use your tools to their best advantage for them to reward you.

The biggest drawback of the 17-85 IS is the relatively small max aperture. Shooting action during the daytime is no problem, but you will have to up the ISO speed sooner than you would with an f/2.8 aperture lens as the light goes away.

The reason I would choose this lens over a faster f/2.8 third party zoom that is comparably priced is for the USM autofocus. If you're shooting action shots, a good AF system is very important and Canon's USM lenses are top shelf in that department and noticeably faster/more accurate than their 3rd party competition.

If your camera's AF is lagging or not fast enough to capture action consistently, you will be frustrated.
I love f/2.8 or faster lenses, but for your stated budget, you will have to give up one or the other in a normal walk-around zoom range.

In order to get both USM and f/2.8, you'll have to up the budget, not even talking about image stabilization yet. You could make an argument about the benefits of f/2.8, but your statement about your image quality needs takes me back to the Canon 17-85 IS.

Mine is very close to the highly regarded Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 I owned with regards to image quality and the autofocus was noticeably better. If you had indicated that action shots were not that important to you, I may have had a different answer. If your needs are different, it may steer you in a different direction.

Always remember that every lens made has a list of plusses AND minuses. There is no such thing as a free lunch even if there are some that can offer better value for a given set of circumstances, but if those are not your circumstances, then that doesn't matter much.

Another thing to remember is that just because someone else has something and loves it doesn't mean it will be perfect for you. Maybe it will and maybe it won't. Get the best gear for you, your needs and your budget.

Good luck, shop hard and carefully, then get what fits you best rather than buying something and then doing all the research.

Here's an action shot from my Canon EF-S 17-85 IS:



I have since upgraded to the Canon 17-55 f/2.8 IS and love it, but that lens would eat your budget all by itself.

[Shu]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Nikon-D80-10-2MP...QQcmdZViewItem
this looks like a perfect deal for me...has everything...right?

[Lambda_drive]

Originally Posted by Shu

I have 3 that I've been comparing...
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp?method=sidebyside&cameras=canon_e os400d%2Cnikon_d70%2Cpentax_k10d&show=all

Seems teh more I research the more I get confused

Going by those stats the K10D has more going for it than the XTI. (I'm not going to mention the D70 since it was released in 04, it's a bit outdated for a DSLR).

In the image below I have highlighted a few of the features which I think are superior.






The K10D in my opinion is the better choice. In the end what ever camera you choose will be more than enough. If all you want to do is take nice pictures, then it doesn't really matter which camera is the "best", they all take fine pictures.

[Lambda_drive]

Originally Posted by Shu

http://cgi.ebay.com/Nikon-D80-10-2MP...QQcmdZViewItem
this looks like a perfect deal for me...has everything...right?

I'm a bit weary of fleabay.

I'd rather buy my camera from a dedicated camera store. Plus I'm not even sure if that DSLR even has a warranty with it. I'm not saying it's bad to buy from ebay, it's just that I wouldn't do it.

[Shu]

I'm cautious when dealing w/ eBay...Looking at the "kit" and the components listed...they add up to $450+ which puts the camera body at less then $600...the majority of the stuff listed I would buy regardless...I still need to hold and play w/ the different cameras in person before I'd buy anything...it just seems like I may be able to work a deal w/ a store locally for some of the stuff....you know "price matching"...do the stores in OC sell kits like this?

[Jordansrealm]

Canon Digital Rebel XTi

Your best bang for your buck hands down. Canon is also local in Irvine and Canon's warranty and CS people are MUCH nicer and more helpful than Nikon people. Canon is also the more popular brand of the two which means more shops are going to carry Canon stuff than the others. Therefore, the people working there are going to be more helpful with Canon equipment.

[Shu]

Canon-OEM?
Sigma-Aftermarket?

Nikon/Nikor-OEM?
Tamron=Aftermarket?

is one better then the other?

[jeffj]

Most third party lenses (Sigma, Tamron, Tokina, etc.) are made for both Nikon and Canon mounts.

For action shooting, there are only a few certain Sigmas (certain ones with HSM - 70-200 f/2.8, 100-300 f/4 & 120-300 f/2.8 )I would consider and other than that, and even so, I would stick with OEM lenses with the faster AF motors if at all possible.

I have yet to see a Tamron with a suitable AF system for shooting sports. They do have some lenses with excellent optics like the 17-50 f/2.8 and the 28-75 f/2.8, but their AF leaves something to be desired when shooting action and in low light.

JMHO.

[wheezy]

Originally Posted by Jordansrealm

Canon Digital Rebel XTi

Your best bang for your buck hands down. Canon is also local in Irvine and Canon's warranty and CS people are MUCH nicer and more helpful than Nikon people. Canon is also the more popular brand of the two which means more shops are going to carry Canon stuff than the others. Therefore, the people working there are going to be more helpful with Canon equipment.

Interesting. I've owned a lot of gear from both camps. Nikon for photo gear, Canon for both photo and video gear. I love both, but have had the exact opposite experience with customer service and sales people.

More shops carry Canon than Nikon? Once again, this is interesting. I wasn't aware of that. Then again I've NEVER seen a shop that doesn't carry both (at least a shop I would ever buy something from)

Therefore the people working there are going to be more helpful with Canon equipment????

VERY interesting deduction. I can't find anybody at any shop that could help me with my XH-A1 and editing workflow. Even online it proved difficult to find information. Perhaps apples to oranges isn't fair though.

Nikons don't need people working at shops to help customers use them, they just make more sense. Hands down the best menu systems and ergonomics out there.

In all fairness I do also have a 1D Mk II that I like to use once in a while. I am fortunate enough to have access to the body and the absolutely incredible 14mm USM II. That particular lens is the only noticeable advantage over Nikon in my opinion. Nikons top offerings in every other department are just as good or better than the canon stuff in all regards.

The D3 is top dog right now PERIOD / 24-70 / 70-200 / 200-400 / and the newest 400 / 500 / 600 are all as good as it gets according to the published MTF charts. These are scientific charts, not opinions.

In closing. Extraordinary photography Jordan... I think both systems are pretty good and I've seen enough people with amazing skills that use both. I've even seen guys take tests with setups from both camps, printed at 60" and nobody could tell the difference.

Keep this in mind though:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hjBv9wYOEE

[Jordansrealm]

You share the typical Nikon owners view. (we are better than you) I have used both and prefer Canon for many reasons as I am sure you prefer Nikon for many reasons. To each his own choose whats best for you and what gives you the results you desire. In the end its the personal clicking the shutter that matters most, not the shutter. The D3 is not top dog in my book. Cheers!

Thanks for the comps you have some great photos yourself!

Originally Posted by wheezy

Interesting. I've owned a lot of gear from both camps. Nikon for photo gear, Canon for both photo and video gear. I love both, but have had the exact opposite experience with customer service and sales people.

More shops carry Canon than Nikon? Once again, this is interesting. I wasn't aware of that. Then again I've NEVER seen a shop that doesn't carry both (at least a shop I would ever buy something from)

Therefore the people working there are going to be more helpful with Canon equipment????

VERY interesting deduction. I can't find anybody at any shop that could help me with my XH-A1 and editing workflow. Even online it proved difficult to find information. Perhaps apples to oranges isn't fair though.

Nikons don't need people working at shops to help customers use them, they just make more sense. Hands down the best menu systems and ergonomics out there.

In all fairness I do also have a 1D Mk II that I like to use once in a while. I am fortunate enough to have access to the body and the absolutely incredible 14mm USM II. That particular lens is the only noticeable advantage over Nikon in my opinion. Nikons top offerings in every other department are just as good or better than the canon stuff in all regards.

The D3 is top dog right now PERIOD / 24-70 / 70-200 / 200-400 / and the newest 400 / 500 / 600 are all as good as it gets according to the published MTF charts. These are scientific charts, not opinions.

In closing. Extraordinary photography Jordan... I think both systems are pretty good and I've seen enough people with amazing skills that use both. I've even seen guys take tests with setups from both camps, printed at 60" and nobody could tell the difference.

Keep this in mind though:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hjBv9wYOEE

[Bryguy17]

one thing I'd like to mention: If you end up going canon, and are looking into lenses, their USM ultrasonic motors for focusing are very nice. They're really fast and quiet. IS is a bit gimicky, but it is helpful in certain situations.

[OffRoadie]

Originally Posted by evdog

Something else the guy in the shop liked about the K10D was that it still had a separate display on the top of the camera which shows certain settings, while the Rebel and D40 no longer have those as they tried to reduce the body size. Without it you need to poke around in the menus on the LCD screen to see what the settings are. I think the D70 does have that display.

I don't know what the shop guy really was talking about. On the Rebel XTi, all of the relevant settings are always shown on the main LCD screen. I'm looking at it right now and it shows:
shutter speed
aperture
ISO
White Balance mode
Metering mode
Focusing mode
Shooting mode
Drive mode
AF Point
Image storage mode
battery indicator
Shots remaining

This is all on a single screen, no menus necessary to look at them. BTW, if you want to check out my camera, I can bring it to a ride. It's often just sitting in my car anyways.

[wheezy]

Originally Posted by Jordansrealm

You share the typical Nikon owners view. (we are better than you) I have used both and prefer Canon for many reasons as I am sure you prefer Nikon for many reasons. To each his own choose whats best for you and what gives you the results you desire. In the end its the personal clicking the shutter that matters most, not the shutter. The D3 is not top dog in my book. Cheers!

Thanks for the comps you have some great photos yourself!

Typical Nikon user?? View that I am better than you? WTF dude? I don't know how you came up with that BS, but whatever. I CURRENTLY own a 1D Mk II... a 14mm USM, and an XH-A1 (that's about $11K of Canon gear dude!)

Scientifically speaking, the Nikon D3 is superior to anything in the Canon camp. It IS top dog, you can't argue that the camera itself is capable of MORE than anything from Canon right now. Iso 64,000 bro!!!! 14bit sampling, and DR that is way beyond even the digital medium format stuff. Have you seen the thing??? Image samples? It smokes the MkIII in every regard.... not to mention 11fps for the sports shooters.

Anyhow, I shoot both, probably always will. It's like Mac's and PC's. Let the idiots argue over which is better... I'll continue to use both as they both have strong points and intended uses.


Ferrari or Lamborghini?

[pitmang1]

Originally Posted by wheezy

Ferrari or Lamborghini?

Neither.
Porsche.

[Jordansrealm]

Originally Posted by wheezy

Typical Nikon user?? View that I am better than you? WTF dude? I don't know how you came up with that BS, but whatever. I CURRENTLY own a 1D Mk II... a 14mm USM, and an XH-A1 (that's about $11K of Canon gear dude!)

Scientifically speaking, the Nikon D3 is superior to anything in the Canon camp. It IS top dog, you can't argue that the camera itself is capable of MORE than anything from Canon right now. Iso 64,000 bro!!!! 14bit sampling, and DR that is way beyond even the digital medium format stuff. Have you seen the thing??? Image samples? It smokes the MkIII in every regard.... not to mention 11fps for the sports shooters.

Anyhow, I shoot both, probably always will. It's like Mac's and PC's. Let the idiots argue over which is better... I'll continue to use both as they both have strong points and intended uses.


Ferrari or Lamborghini?

Sorry I guess I was generalizing there. I meant most Nikon owners feel they are above Canon owners. If you frequent most of the camera forums you will see that. Nikon guys rave about how great and better their gear is when Canon guys usually just talk shop. Kinda funny Its kinda like Mac guys raving about how great they are and PC guys just talking about computer stuff on forums. I am a Mac guy and I do love mine but hey a computer is a computer

The D3 is a beast and on paper it has features no other camera can touch right now. In real life though I havent been as overwhelmed with the results from other people I know using Nikon. The 1Ds MII produces some of the best images I have ever seen shy of getting into Medium Format cameras, etc...

I thought about switching to Nikon once and bought a body and lens this was a while back. The camera was great but when it came time for me to do my normal research and find out how dealing with their PRO services was going to go I was amused. The Canon CPS program is leaps and bounds ahead of the Nikon Pro department. That to me is invaluable. CPS has saved me on several occasions on shoots around the country forgetting to bring gear and sending me out what I need overnight, no charge. Getting my gear cleaned for me overnight, no charge. Things like that are what keeps me with Canon cameras. Nikon just didnt offer anything in comparison.

[Shu]

Jordan and Wheezy you are both on a level that I probably will never reach as it comes to photography so some of what you are saying isn't totally relevant to what I'm looking for...I appriciate everything you have both stated and am going to use the advice you both have given when I make my purchase...

I went to Bestbuy last night to soley hold and play w/ a couple or the cameras I'm interested in....I did not ask the kids there to answer any questions w/ exception to "what does this button/dial do?"

D40 felt good
D80 felt good but big and I kept bumping the apprature setting dial w/ my thumb
XTi400D felt good
K10d not avalible

The one thing that I couldn't get a true feel for the cameras b/c of the "security" cable and attachment plate was sticking out a little into my palm on all 3 cameras...I'll get a better feel for the feel of the cameras a real camera shop....I hope today