King of Kings?

[Fired Yo Momma]

OK so we had opinions on the headsets do you all think the hubs are any better vs. say Hopes. I have only heard one opinion on the CK hubs?

[DeeZee]

Originally Posted by Fired Yo Momma

OK so we had opinions on the headsets do you all think the hubs are any better vs. say Hopes. I have only heard one opinion on the CK hubs?

Value

Hope
Hadley
DT Swiss
CK

Performance

King
Hadley
DT Swiss
Hope

Weight

DT Swiss
Hope
Hadley
CK

I currently own Hope, Hadley and King hubs

[Fired Yo Momma]

How do you measure performance on the hub vs any other hub?

[SSinGA]

Originally Posted by DeeZee

Value

Hope
Hadley
DT Swiss
CK

Performance

King
Hadley
DT Swiss
Hope

Weight

DT Swiss
Hope
Hadley
CK

I currently own Hope, Hadley and King hubs

I9 belongs in that list as well.

[DeeZee]

Originally Posted by SSinGA

I9 belongs in that list as well.

wanted to comment on hubs I have tried and or currently own

[BSki]

Originally Posted by Fired Yo Momma

How do you measure performance on the hub vs any other hub?

Jump height. Pedro had the best hubs on this rigid.

[DeeZee]

Originally Posted by Fired Yo Momma

How do you measure performance on the hub vs any other hub?

I think we need to start a new thread....


Here you go


Engagement
Axle options
Rolling resistance (drag)
Durability
And others……..

[Chewyeti]

Buncha arm-chair engineers in here....

WHAT makes a CK better than any other sealed bearing headset (physically...not looks/CS/ etc?
Tolerances?
The bearings used?
Ease of install?

Split ring feature etc......

Not... I LIKE IT CUZ IT IS PRETTY....or because the PATH sells them....or..

[2wheel_lee]

Originally Posted by Chewyeti

WHAT makes a CK better than any other sealed bearing headset (physically...not looks/CS/ etc?
Tolerances?

Contrary to the popular beliefs of some, I don't take risks. I find a product that performse well and is reliable and I generally stick to it. As mentioned, I used to break the bearing cups of Cane Creek headsets. But they weren't the only brand I had problems with breaking cups. I started using King headsets, and the thought of breaking headset cups is a thing of the past. I have no interest in using other headsets for 1-1/8" applications.

When I first started using 1.5" headsets, the first choice was Cane Creek. Unfortunately, their tolerances were a bit off (they were mostly oversized), and broken frames from these oversized cups were common. Intense generally recommended not using Cane Creek headsets. Once again, Cane Creek headsets were a source of troubles.

For 1.5" headsets, I've been using FSA. The FSA headsets have a lower stack height than the Cane Creek, which makes them generally more desireable for long-travel forks. I have not yet used a King 1.5" headsets since they were only recently released.

Although Cane Creek may have some good designs and patents, the performance of their products have been generally poor for me.

[ODB]

Riders who use Cane Creek or FSA have brains a third of the size of Chris King users. It's science.

[DeeZee]

http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/headset/

[SSinGA]

Originally Posted by 2wheel_lee

By the way, some Specialized frames use a slightly oversized headset with cups slightly larger than the standard. I'm not sure about other headset companies, but Chris King does offer an oversized headset for these Specialized frames.

Info on this from Josh - design engineer at Cane Creek (stolen from MTBR)

Originally Posted by JC_CC
Greetings from Cane Creek.

I am posting this with the hope of clearing up some misunderstandings regarding headsets, head tube specifications, and industry standards regarding the two.

1) The industry standard for 1-1/8” threadless headsets is as follows:
Head Tube ID (mm): 33.90 – 33.95*
Headset Cup insertion OD (mm): 34.05* – 34.15
A range is specified (known as the tolerance) since it impossible to manufacture to exact dimensions. These dimensions and tolerances yield:
Headset Interference fit: 0.10*-0.25mm
* bold values are target values with tolerance ranges falling in the direction of increased interference.

This industry standard is published in Sutherlands Handbook for Bicycle Mechanics (available for reference at most bike shops) and also online for free from Cane Creek at:
http://www.canecreek.com/fileadmin/c...pecs_rev_C.pdf

This is the same standard provided to frame and fork manufactures, including Specialized.

2) In researching the issue with 2007 Stumpjumpers frames, I communicated directly with Specialized’s Product manager for Mountain Bikes (He is at the top of the food chain there when it comes to bike spec). He writes,“No, we do not do anything tricky with our HS’s…we do not have our own spec like the Internet Chat rooms would like to believe.” “Again, we do not have a non-std spec.”

So to be clear:
- Regardless of what “tech guys at Specialized” have said, Specialized did not intentionally specify Stumpjumper head tubes with 34.00mm bores (see above for proof).
- Nor has Specialized created a new “Metric Standard” head tube bore of 34.00mm. First, the industry standard is already metric (33.90mm-33.95mm). Second, to be a standard (by definition) it has to be accepted by the industry as such. Having a single frame model made by a single manufacture use a head tube bore that is 0.05mm different from an existing standard is an example of nonstandard.

3) Despite the 34.00mm head tube bore, it appears that headsets that came stock on 2007 Stumpjumper frames do meet the Cane Creek cup insertion OD of 34.05mm-34.15mm. These headsets are reported to work fine with these frames. It stands to reason that other headsets that meet the same cup insertion spec (34.05-34.15), which is all Cane Creek 1-1/8” headsets, will also work in these frames. This includes the new Cane Creek 110 headset.

4) King Components 1-1/8” aluminum headsets have a target Cup Insertion OD of: 34.0mm and recommends the following:
Head Tube ID: 33.9mm
Maximum Interference fit: 0.1mm

These values are available online for free at:
http://www.chrisking.com/specs/headsets_all.html
King’s target specification for Cup Insertion OD is outside of the industry standard. However, since no tolerances are provided on either the press fit or the Head Tube ID, it is not clear what constitutes a proper head tube bore for CK headsets. However, evidence suggests (by the tens of thousands of frames that are manufactured to Cane Creek standard that use King 1-1/8” headsets) that frames with head tubes manufactured to the Cane Creek standard (from the factory or by using widely available frame finishing tools) provides an appropriate interference fit.

Note that the “custom” CK headset (with 34.10mm cup insertion OD) meets the industry standard.

Addressing specific questions:
Q- If the Specialized frames use a slightly bigger headset, then that means that Cane Creek, and other companies that supply headsets for them, would have known about this and the info should have been out for awhile now, correct?
A- No. First, Specialized doesn’t use slightly bigger headsets. The headsets that came with the bikes meet the industry standard (see above). Second, Cane Creek and manufacturers that supply OEM customers (like Specialized) on behalf of Cane Creek supply headsets manufactured to the industry standards. If headsets that meet this standard are specified (like the one 1-1/8” headsets in question here) then frames are made to fit headsets, not the other way around.

Q- So if CK's are 33.9 what are other head set measurements? Are Cane CreeK, Race Face, FSA, Hopeand others larger the CK?
A-.Since CK does not specify tolerances it is not clear if CK cup insertion OD is always smaller than the standard. From the issues with 07 Stumpjumpers, it certainly appears that CK manufactures headsets with cup insertion OD that is, on the average, smaller than other headset manufacturers.

Q- Nice looking headsets (in reference to Cane Creek’s 110 Headset). The question is, do they make them in a special size?
A- The standard size for all Cane Creek headsets is the industry standard, same as the headset that came with your bike. The 110 headset, any Cane Creek headset, or any other headset besides the “standard” CK will fit fine. Note that the “custom” CK headset (with 34.10mm cup insertion OD) meets the industry standard.

Hope this helps.