Possible Mountain Lions in IDY - careful!

[COLEKO]

Originally Posted by KBL

The singlemost common denominator in mountain lion attacks on humans is that the human is alone, so I choose to ride with others more often.

This is why we have Mtdew to ride with.

I remember the time up on Chantry where I seen deer tracks on the trail and after awhile there was another set of tracks following it. I whould like to think it was a dog but who knows.

[emejay]

Originally Posted by Rockinthecasbah

And like brewmaster said if you are that scared of Big cats move to Downtown and ride your bike on a bike path.

I'm afraid of the animals there too..

[Vickie]

Originally Posted by emejay

How would you feel if your kid was attacked playing in the yard? Would you accept the risk you took living in the foothills and recognize the need for the mt lion to do what mt lions do? Just curious......

I would be grief stricken!!! Completely, grief stricken if my child was attacked ...yes!! Never did I say a person shouldn't be able to protect their children / pets in the confines of their own yard. I just don't believe that all cats should be killed when captured, unless of course they are a threat.

And, in hopes to not turn this into a urinary joust, I will say - again - I firmly believe if a person chooses to live where their homes are backed up against the wilderness they have a responibility to understand the reality of what could happen.

[foofighter]

vickie i agree what you're saying...and there was a discussion not too long ago about how we as humans truly are moving into their habitat and when there are things like coyote spotting or a coyote eats a pet people get bent out of shape but they forget that it was them that moved into the outskirts of a wilderness habitat.

I have kids and toddlers as you recall and it would devastate me if something like an animal attack were to happen to them. But i would hold myself responsible as well as I should be watching them.

[Pain Freak]

You all know at not so long ago in the past the whole world was wild animal territory. Now it's ours and as populations continue to grow, we also have a right to the land.

[dstepper]

Originally Posted by Pain Freak

You all know at not so long ago in the past the whole world was wild animal territory. Now it's ours and as populations continue to grow, we also have a right to the land.

Correct! I don't hear complaints about the lack of grizzlies and wolfs in our back yards. Or the Golden Eagles that used to take kids out of the yards of the pioneer families.

[Pickettt]

Your points are valid, but, if I saw you as a threat, do I have the right to preemptively...deal with you?

[EMrider]

I'm also in the zero tolerance camp. I spend a lot of time with my family in an area surrounded by wilderness where bears and coyotes are relatively common. Mountain lions are rare, but they have been confirmed in the area. Yes, you must be "aware" of the risks and behave accordingly. The kids are never allowed to play outside alone, etc....... But any cat (or coyote) that comes near people or homes will be killed (by me, my neighbors or the USFS or BLM rangers) because these animals hunt prey and have displayed threatening behavior towards humans. Bears in this area are not considered predators and they are typically relocated if they become a problem. I have zero sympathy for the "but you're in their home" line of reasoning. It is my home too. Human life is far more important and wild animals have drawn the short straw on this issue, even the "beautiful and majestic" ones.

[Pain Freak]

Originally Posted by EMrider

I'm also in the zero tolerance camp. I spend a lot of time with my family in an area surrounded by wilderness where bears, coyotes and mtn. lions are relatively common. Yes, you must be "aware" of the risks and behave accordingly. The kids are never allowed to play outside alone. But any cat (or coyote) that comes near people or homes will be killed (by me, my neighbors or the USFS or BLM rangers) because it has displayed threatening behavior. I have zero sympathy for the "but you're in their home" line of reasoning. It is my home too. Human life is far more important and wild animals have drawn the short straw on this issue, even the "beautiful and majestic" ones.

1,000 Thanks button needed again!

[foofighter]

dont get me wrong if one of those critters comes close to my kids or family it will be kill first and ask for forgiveness later...

[Cragar]

Originally Posted by EMrider

I'm also in the zero tolerance camp. I spend a lot of time with my family in an area surrounded by wilderness where bears and coyotes are relatively common. Mountain lions are rare, but they have been confirmed in the area. Yes, you must be "aware" of the risks and behave accordingly. The kids are never allowed to play outside alone, etc....... But any cat (or coyote) that comes near people or homes will be killed (by me, my neighbors or the USFS or BLM rangers) because these animals hunt prey and have displayed threatening behavior towards humans. Bears in this area are not considered predators and they are typically relocated if they become a problem. I have zero sympathy for the "but you're in their home" line of reasoning. It is my home too. Human life is far more important and wild animals have drawn the short straw on this issue, even the "beautiful and majestic" ones.

Now this should be be post of the year. A very true statement.

[dstepper]

Thank You EMrider, well said.

Top of the World, Laguna Beach. Last year a coyote pushed through a screen door and came into the house of an eldery couple and took their small dog. I am sure that where "aware" that that was going to happen.

[mottmcfly]

Originally Posted by dstepper

Thank You EMrider, well said.

Top of the World, Laguna Beach. Last year a coyote pushed through a screen door and came into the house of an ealdery couple and took their small dog. I am sure that where "aware" that that was going to happen.

While I agree with this and we should protect our own as an utmost priority it is also our responsibility where applicable to try and preserve all wildlife. There has to be a happy medium here somewhere. We are in their territory and they are in ours. These animals are not the enemy. Most are displaying a behavior in reaction to our actions like people feeding deer out their back door! I cannot agree with a shoot first mentality on this. As far as the coyote story goes, that is a tragedy but very isolated. That Coyote obviously deserves to be destroyed. Should we kill them all because of that one incident? Is there a trend of coyote home invasions? no.

[EMrider]

Originally Posted by mottmcfly

While I agree with this and we should protect our own as an utmost priority it is also our responsibility where applicable to try and preserve all wildlife. There has to be a happy medium here somewhere. We are in their territory and they are in ours. These animals are not the enemy. Most are displaying a behavior in reaction to our actions like people feeding deer out their back door! I cannot agree with a shoot first mentality on this. As far as the coyote story goes, that is a tragedy but very isolated. That Coyote obviously deserves to be destroyed. Should we kill them all because of that one incident? Is there a trend of coyote home invasions? no.

I think the distinction is whether or not humans are pro-actively venturing into wilderness and encountering animals, or vice versa. No way would I celebrate killing of any wildlife, no matter how necessary it might be. When humans head out on a hike or backpacking trip, MTB ride etc........then I feel a higher degree of responsibility to avoid dangerous animals and to use non-lethal means of personal protection (fwiw, I carry pepper spray). And while it may not be 100% logical, I do put more value on the life of larger and rarer animals than on those which are basically a dime a dozen. I do that for purely selfish reasons, because it is a treat to see them in their natural environment.

But when they venture into human's zone and encroach on my home, then the predators are going to get shot (and it is official policy to do so). I do realize that this is a slippery slope and that it can be hard to clearly distinguish between when predators encroach on humans and vice versa. But IMHO it comes down to a judgment about which form of life is more valuable. Humans are at the top of the priority list by a wide margin and that means some risks can't be tolerated. Some people (areas) recognize this a priori. Others only recognize this fact after a tragedy.
R

[BrewMaster]

I agree that humans are by far the top priority. If an animal can be trapped and released into the wilderness far away, I think that has to be the first line of defense (which was the case in the post which stated this debate).

Here is more detail on what we experience in Chino Hills:

October 2007: A 2 year old girl gets bit by a coyote while playing in front of the house. This happened just up the hill from us.

December 6, 2007: A 2 year old boy gets bit by a coyote at Alterra Park. This is about 100 yards from my front door.

December 19-20, 2007: A bobcat (or two different bobcats, no one knows) entered the school yard of at Oak Ridge Elementary School. Both times the the bobcat ran away when it saw people.

In response to all of this, the city re-sent this warning/advice letter to every home.

My point is that we all have to be aware and responsive to our environment, but making blanket statements that close encounters should result in killing the animals is irresponsible.

Chino Hills tried trapping and destroying coyotes a while back. It didn't work. According to the Wildlife Officer I spoke to, this actually did more harm than good for 3 reasons:

1) They mostly trapped older and unfit coyotes leaving healthy coyotes to reproduce, making for stronger animals.

2) The sudden drop in coyote population allows their prey foods to increase population. This in turn allows the support of larger future coyote litters with more food available. The net effect is actually an INCREASE in coyote population.

3) Coyotes serve to eliminate small animals such as rabbits, squirrels, and other rodents which carry diseases to humans.

Because of all of this, Chino Hills has stopped the trapping and destroying programs in favor of educating the community and keeping everyone aware. This is not 100% effective, sure, but it is better than the alternatives.

With the rains lately I have noticed that CHSP is much more green and healthy and as a result I see more coyotes and bobcats in the park when I ride and less when I am at home. Healthy wild lands will keep the wild animals out of our neighborhoods.

[Vickie]

Originally Posted by mottmcfly

While I agree with this and we should protect our own as an utmost priority it is also our responsibility where applicable to try and preserve all wildlife. There has to be a happy medium here somewhere. We are in their territory and they are in ours. These animals are not the enemy. Most are displaying a behavior in reaction to our actions like people feeding deer out their back door! I cannot agree with a shoot first mentality on this. As far as the coyote story goes, that is a tragedy but very isolated. That Coyote obviously deserves to be destroyed. Should we kill them all because of that one incident? Is there a trend of coyote home invasions? no.

AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!!!!! 10,000 thanks buttons here Please!!!!

[emejay]

Originally Posted by EMrider

I'm also in the zero tolerance camp. I spend a lot of time with my family in an area surrounded by wilderness where bears and coyotes are relatively common. Mountain lions are rare, but they have been confirmed in the area. Yes, you must be "aware" of the risks and behave accordingly. The kids are never allowed to play outside alone, etc....... But any cat (or coyote) that comes near people or homes will be killed (by me, my neighbors or the USFS or BLM rangers) because these animals hunt prey and have displayed threatening behavior towards humans. Bears in this area are not considered predators and they are typically relocated if they become a problem. I have zero sympathy for the "but you're in their home" line of reasoning. It is my home too. Human life is far more important and wild animals have drawn the short straw on this issue, even the "beautiful and majestic" ones.

This states my position well. People find a rattlesnake in their garage, they kill it, even though "the rattlesnake lived here first". It is duplicitous for one to state they are so caring for all living creatures, yet they most likely would take a shovel to the rattlesnakes neck in a second and without a second thought.

[BrewMaster]

Originally Posted by emejay

This states my position well. People find a rattlesnake in their garage, they kill it, even though "the rattlesnake lived here first". It is duplicitous for one to state they are so caring for all living creatures, yet they most likely would take a shovel to the rattlesnakes neck in a second and without a second thought.

Not in our neighborhood. My neighbor gets rattlesnakes in his garage several times a year and every time he either calls animal control to pick up the big ones or we scoop up the small ones and toss 'em back into to the state park. They control mice and rabbits in our neighborhood and we need them.

Not to mention rattlesnakes really are not aggressive when left alone. They are not in our garages and yards trying to hunt us like the odd mountain lion might be.

I know many people would just smash them with a shovel, but that isn't a great idea IMO.