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CPATCRASH

This organization is supported by a local club and I wonder why. http://www.sharetrails.org/ Anybody see what happens to areas where jeeps and ATV's have access? I remember the trails in Moab in the early 80's before they were destroyed.

Tedroy

Gasoline is their crutch.

CalEpic

While it's not appropriate to have motos or ATVs on some trails, we share a common access fight in many areas. I wouldn't be so quick to separate ourselves. A united front doesn't necessarily have to mean we are in total alignment on our goals. It does mean we have a much louder voice to drown out the whacko's.

It should also be noted that there is a tremendous amount of trailwork done by the motorsports groups. If you enjoy riding Downieville, Kernville, Arrowhead, etc. many of those trails exist because of a diverse group of volunteers. Not just mountain bikers.

IMBA could learn a thing or two from the Blue Ribbon Coalition. Their successes dwarf those of IMBA by a long shot.

C

EMrider

Quote:

Originally Posted by CalEpic

While it's not appropriate to have motos or ATVs on some trails, we share a common access fight in many areas. I wouldn't be so quick to separate ourselves. A united front doesn't necessarily have to mean we are in total alignment on our goals. It does mean we have a much louder voice to drown out the whacko's.

It should also be noted that there is a tremendous amount of trailwork done by the motorsports groups. If you enjoy riding Downieville, Kernville, Arrowhead, etc. many of those trails exist because of a diverse group of volunteers. Not just mountain bikers.

IMBA could learn a thing or two from the Blue Ribbon Coalition. Their successes dwarf those of IMBA by a long shot.

C

You're absolutely right and the premise of the original post is pretty arrogant IMHO.

CPATCRASH, do a bit of homework and you'll find that virtually the entire trail network around Moab was created by motorcycle riders in the 1960s. The moto riders continue to do a LOT of work, in cooperation with MTB access groups, to maintain and keep these trails open for YOU.

We're in a nonstop battle against the advocates for closure of public lands and trail networks to BOTH motos and MTB riders. Far better to work together and leverage our resources and political clout than to badmouth each other.
R

CPATCRASH

I'm not saying they don't do a lot of work. What I am saying is that the trails are in much worse shape because of over use. Trails should be designated to specific users. I just hope the trails that need work in the Santa Ana mountains aren't kept wide for motorcycle access. And by the way I raced motorcycles for many years in the desert so I am not against them at all.

Schecky

I would guess that the success of the Blue Ribbon group has a lot more to do with the amount of $$ backing them than anything else. (Ex: "resource based industries")

Motosports are great fun, and I'm sure that they have done much good trailwork, but I do not agree that we should be aligned together.

Cowgirl

Quote:

Originally Posted by CalEpic

While it's not appropriate to have motos or ATVs on some trails, we share a common access fight in many areas. I wouldn't be so quick to separate ourselves. A united front doesn't necessarily have to mean we are in total alignment on our goals. It does mean we have a much louder voice to drown out the whacko's.

It should also be noted that there is a tremendous amount of trailwork done by the motorsports groups. If you enjoy riding Downieville, Kernville, Arrowhead, etc. many of those trails exist because of a diverse group of volunteers. Not just mountain bikers.

IMBA could learn a thing or two from the Blue Ribbon Coalition. Their successes dwarf those of IMBA by a long shot.

C

From what I understand there are many organizations that support "OPEN ACCESS"...if we want to ride our bikes, horses, and hike in the Santa Ana Mnts we need to leave it open access. Unfortuneatley it's an all or nothing deal here and in many States...it's either Closed or it's Open to ALL Users...which includes 4x4's and motorcycles. I personally don't feel that our trails have been ruined by the amount of vehicle and motorcycle traffic on the mountain. I have watched more damage occur from us mountain bikers and equestrians on trails all over the OC.

mechmann

true that. the closest trail to our house is often completely un-ridable due to the volume of equestrian traffic.

.8down

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowgirl

From what I understand there are many organizations that support "OPEN ACCESS"...if we want to ride our bikes, horses, and hike in the Santa Ana Mnts we need to leave it open access. Unfortuneatley it's an all or nothing deal here and in many States...it's either Closed or it's Open to ALL Users...which includes 4x4's and motorcycles. I personally don't feel that our trails have been ruined by the amount of vehicle and motorcycle traffic on the mountain. I have watched more damage occur from us mountain bikers and equestrians on trails all over the OC.

on the FJ forums I use to read people got burned and burned hard for being irresponsible while wheeling, but I think for the 1% that cares enough to "tread lightly" there is 20% that could care less I think in evey section of trail users there is the bad apple that ruins it for all the good ones.

Rockinthecasbah

moto organizations have alot more power usally with paid lobbyists and alot of pull. I ride moto and I've been riding in the dez my whole life. I also drive prerunners and have alot of firneds that race dez in the bigger cars I know what these things do to the land but whats the point of leaving everything perfect its come to the point now to let whats been screwed up stay that way so theyre is somewhere to ride.

Tedroy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockinthecasbah

moto organizations have alot more power usally with paid lobbyists and alot of pull. I ride moto and I've been riding in the dez my whole life. I also drive prerunners and have alot of firneds that race dez in the bigger cars I know what these things do to the land but whats the point of leaving everything perfect its come to the point now to let whats been screwed up stay that way so theyre is somewhere to ride.

Wow. Speechless. Fight ignorance everywhere!

genusmtbkr5

Is this STR or MTBR? Discuss openly all you want, but keep personal attacks out of this forum or I will shut this thread down.

mechmann

Quote:

Originally Posted by genusmtbkr5

Is this STR or MTBR? Discuss openly all you want, but keep personal attacks out of this forum or I will shut this thread down.

unless it has something to do with an iron hoser... then personal attacks are ok.

j/k

maxwell

Uh oh, CPATCRASH has his "can opener" out again.

CPATCRASH

I am putting the can opener away next year!

By the way MAXWELL, you would love it here. It's about 28 degrees with 40 mph winds. CRAP!!!

donkey

Apart from the personal attacks against Chris and the WS.......I am curious where people stand on the issue of wilderness designations and open access.

The WS has always spelled out the debate being between the WS and the Sierra Club. How do you folks feel about the values/goals of each?

Again.....NOT trying to stir up a name calling war. Just honest dialogue.

B

CPATCRASH

Quote:

Originally Posted by donkey

Apart from the personal attacks against Chris and the WS.......I am curious where people stand on the issue of wilderness designations and open access.

The WS has always spelled out the debate being between the WS and the Sierra Club. How do you folks feel about the values/goals of each?

Again.....NOT trying to stir up a name calling war. Just honest dialogue.

B

My stand would be that no motorized vehicles be aloud. It should be OK for hikers, cyclists and horses.

EMrider

Quote:

Originally Posted by donkey

Apart from the personal attacks against Chris and the WS.......I am curious where people stand on the issue of wilderness designations and open access.

The WS has always spelled out the debate being between the WS and the Sierra Club. How do you folks feel about the values/goals of each?

Again.....NOT trying to stir up a name calling war. Just honest dialogue.

B

In wilderness areas, I'm in favor of allowing access for hikers, bikes and horses (with crap bags of course). No motorized.

But I'm strongly against the sierra club/boxer goal of declaring darn near everything as wilderness. IMHO, we have plenty of wilderness. The greatest unmet need is for more recreational opportunity on public land, involving multi use trails (motorized and non).

OffRoadie

I mostly agree with EMrider. People on moto's and jeeps and things like that should have a playground too.

I actually have no problem with declaring certain trails hiker only, but I do not believe there is an environmental argument that can be made to allow horses on a trail and disallow bikes. So if wilderness areas allow horses, they should allow bikes.


CPATCRASH Geddyup!	Anybody see anything about Mountain Bikes here? This organization is supported by a local club and I wonder why. http://www.sharetrails.org/ Anybody see what happens to areas where jeeps and ATV's have access? I remember the trails in Moab in the early 80's before they were destroyed. __________________ Cowboy. http://www.thepathbikeshop.com/


Tedroy Mt Wilson Motoboy	Yeccch! Gasoline is their crutch.


CalEpic Col. Clink	While it's not appropriate to have motos or ATVs on some trails, we share a common access fight in many areas. I wouldn't be so quick to separate ourselves. A united front doesn't necessarily have to mean we are in total alignment on our goals. It does mean we have a much louder voice to drown out the whacko's. It should also be noted that there is a tremendous amount of trailwork done by the motorsports groups. If you enjoy riding Downieville, Kernville, Arrowhead, etc. many of those trails exist because of a diverse group of volunteers. Not just mountain bikers. IMBA could learn a thing or two from the Blue Ribbon Coalition. Their successes dwarf those of IMBA by a long shot. C __________________ tkblazer: you pedaled up mathis? nice, i'm scared to ride down it


Schecky SoCalMTBubbs	I would guess that the success of the Blue Ribbon group has a lot more to do with the amount of $$ backing them than anything else. (Ex: "resource based industries") Motosports are great fun, and I'm sure that they have done much good trailwork, but I do not agree that we should be aligned together. __________________ tkblazer: it was Steven Jackson that led me to STR... http://www.ventanausa.com/


mechmann Segregated non-bubb.	true that. the closest trail to our house is often completely un-ridable due to the volume of equestrian traffic. __________________ The Path Bike Shop - Love the Bike you Ride! Royal/661/Sunline e13 Utopia Optics


Rockinthecasbah A.D.D. unleashed	moto organizations have alot more power usally with paid lobbyists and alot of pull. I ride moto and I've been riding in the dez my whole life. I also drive prerunners and have alot of firneds that race dez in the bigger cars I know what these things do to the land but whats the point of leaving everything perfect its come to the point now to let whats been screwed up stay that way so theyre is somewhere to ride. __________________ I Think I Got White Lighting In My Eye chewyeti http://www.RobbinsPictures.com Utopia Optics


genusmtbkr5 Single Track Mind	Is this STR or MTBR? Discuss openly all you want, but keep personal attacks out of this forum or I will shut this thread down. __________________ Gene"GuidesNewWarriors" *http://www.warriorssociety.org/* *http://www.sharemtb.com/*


maxwell Dirty Stinky PATH Love	Uh oh, CPATCRASH has his "can opener" out again. __________________ "what if I say I'm not like the other's, what if I say, I'm not just another one, who play's the pretender, what if I say I will never surender" Foo Fighters - Pretender


donkey Senior Member	Apart from the personal attacks against Chris and the WS.......I am curious where people stand on the issue of wilderness designations and open access. The WS has always spelled out the debate being between the WS and the Sierra Club. How do you folks feel about the values/goals of each? Again.....NOT trying to stir up a name calling war. Just honest dialogue. B __________________ Cowboy.


OffRoadie Roadie in Exile	I mostly agree with EMrider. People on moto's and jeeps and things like that should have a playground too. I actually have no problem with declaring certain trails hiker only, but I do not believe there is an environmental argument that can be made to allow horses on a trail and disallow bikes. So if wilderness areas allow horses, they should allow bikes.

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