Suggestions for an AM hardtail

[thephat]

I personally prefer steel for hardtails. I agree that chromoloy absorbs vibration better than aluminum. I think that the smaller the frame, the more this may be an issue. I do not know of any steel hardtails that are designed around a long travel fork except for really heavy ones.

Duty, our local frame builder in Tustin could do it, but it may put you a little over budget.

[2wheel_lee]

2w4s,
Good answer. I wasn't particularly challenging your comment, but I was just curious to hear your reasoning. BTW, I do ride a chromoly Surly 1x1. Over the years, I've cased my fair share of jumps, which resulted in broken frames of all common frame materials (well, except titanium).

Honestly, maybe I'm just not tuned into how a frame rides, but I can't really tell the difference (assuming the frames are built with a similar goal in mind). Even on my road bike, I went from an aluminum frame (of which the design is supposedly commonly known as ultra rigid) to a high-zoot carbon frame. I can't say I notice the difference. I notice more in 10 psi in the tires than I do frame materials.

But you mentioned to avoid aluminum at all cost. I thought that was a bit strong, considering the successes, accessibility, and affordability of good quality aluminum frames.

[thephat]

Lee, I am a big fan of Surly, but that is a stiff frame for steel. Stiff is good in a lot of ways.

I have a Reynolds 853 Voodoo from about 5 years ago. You can see the flex if I bounce on it hard. It's a very comfy ride, and still quite tuff.

[Rockinthecasbah]

it depends completely on the design of the aluminum frame I've ridden overly stiff alum frames and super flexy ones its all the design , by the way the komodo is a horrible all mt bike I have one for Dj and it is not fun on something as easy as the loop.

[2w4s]

Originally Posted by thephat

I think that the smaller the frame, the more this may be an issue.

U wanna fight?

But you mentioned to avoid aluminum at all cost. I thought that was a bit strong, considering the successes, accessibility, and affordability of good quality aluminum frames.

'at all costs' may be too strong, I just wouldn't buy an alu HT again, I value my joints too much.

[2wheel_lee]

Originally Posted by thephat

Lee, I am a big fan of Surly, but that is a stiff frame for steel. Stiff is good in a lot of ways.

I have a Reynolds 853 Voodoo from about 5 years ago. You can see the flex if I bounce on it hard. It's a very comfy ride, and still quite tuff.

Considering the weight of the Surly, that's what I had guessed. But that again proves the point that design plays more of a role than material. And in the case of a SS, I think that stiff is nice. Although I'd prefer a little more vertical compliance while maintaining good lateral stiffness - although your Voodoo is probably exactly that.

Kind of an interesting related note, I'm looking to build up a new BMX bike. My current frame is aluminum, and it seemingly rides fine (noting how well I'm tuned into that in a post above), but I was also debating on what to get for a new frame. Ironically, I didn't even take material type into consideration as a first thought. However, I'll likely end up with an aluminum frame.

Originally Posted by 2w4s

'at all costs' may be too strong, I just wouldn't buy an alu HT again, I value my joints too much.

Ah man, I hear ya on the joints! Heck, even long-travel AM/DH bikes are hard on my body these days.

[J_Sims]

Originally Posted by 2wheel_lee

Ah man, I hear ya on the joints! Heck, even long-travel AM/DH bikes are hard on my body these days.

Are you sure it is the bike that is hard on you???

[Pho'dUp]

How about one of these (On-One 456)? Steel, will take 4, 5, 6" fork. Looks like the designed the geometry and seat angle to a be a AM rig instead of a lot of the jump frames or DH hardtails you see built around a long fork. This sounds like a winner-winner chicken-dinner Dutch!



http://www.on-one.co.uk/index.php?mo...N_position=3:3

The description on their site makes me want to build one.

Carl

[thephat]

Originally Posted by Pho'dUp

How about one of these (On-One 456)? Steel, will take 4, 5, 6" fork. Looks like the designed the geometry and seat angle to a be a AM rig instead of a lot of the jump frames or DH hardtails you see built around a long fork. This sounds like a winner-winner chicken-dinner Dutch!



http://www.on-one.co.uk/index.php?mo...N_position=3:3

The description on their site makes me want to build one.

Carl

Based on this thread, this may be the best suggestion yet. The frame is in stock at BTI in most sizes. The price after str discount should be around $450.

[thephat]

Originally Posted by 2wheel_lee

Considering the weight of the Surly, that's what I had guessed. But that again proves the point that design plays more of a role than material. And in the case of a SS, I think that stiff is nice. Although I'd prefer a little more vertical compliance while maintaining good lateral stiffness - although your Voodoo is probably exactly that.

You would probably find my Voodoo to be a little bit twisty at the BB. My Dennis Duty made steel frames have big diameter down tubes. The big tube has to twist for the BB to twist, so the big down tube gives a sollid feel without a big compromise on virtical compliance.

[quote=2w4s;150046]U wanna fight?



'I don't know. We may be in the same weight class.

[slowSSer]

if you're interested in a barely used kona cowen frame, let me know- it's general lee orange and I'd probably let it go for little $.

[ODB]

That On-One looks like it fits the bill. The Cove Handjob, also steel, is another option.

[maxwell]

Originally Posted by slowSSer

if you're interested in a barely used kona cowen frame, let me know- it's general lee orange and I'd probably let it go for little $.

Ethan, what size is your Cowen frame?

[slowSSer]

Originally Posted by maxwell

Ethan, what size is your Cowen frame?

it's a large- but this is the BMX style frame that only came in medium or large.

I'll see what i can find on kona's website.

you need it for one of the kiddos?

edit:
link to the 2005 catalog- mine's the 2004. nerly brand new- i think there's one small paint ding on the whole bike.

http://www.konaworld.com/2k5_catalog...NAL_p30-31.jpg

[maxwell]

Originally Posted by slowSSer

it's a large- but this is the BMX style frame that only came in medium or large.

I'll see what i can find on kona's website.

you need it for one of the kiddos?

I know the frame well, I thought it might be a good one to build up for Jake, kinda along the same lines as this disusion is going. A nice durable, semi-light all-mountain hardtail.

Let me know what you want for it.

[slowSSer]

Originally Posted by maxwell

I know the frame well, I thought it might be a good one to build up for Jake, kinda along the same lines as this disusion is going. A nice durable, semi-light all-mountain hardtail.

Let me know what you want for it.

well, make me an offer- i just want to get it out of my garage- It's currently got a FSA pig HS, race face isis bb and a marz bomber SL (grey one- 115mm) on the front. fork maybe has 50 miles on it and also has zero scratches. I might have some other parts to go with it (bar, stem)

you going to be at The Path this week at all? I could bring it by for you to check out.

[dutch]

I think you guys have helped narrow my choices to a chameleon or a 456, I've been looking at the 456 for while and it seems pretty sweet.

The only other company I've been looking at is charge bikes. Their blender looks pretty nice too, but i have no clue where to get them out here.

[El Gringo]

Totally with you - I run AM/FR on all my set-ups. If you want a XC racer that can take small hits, check out the Banshee Viento (ignore the 7.2lbs weight on their site, I think it's wrong - should be closer to 4lbs and the whole bike can be built ~23lbs). If you want a bit more bulk that's still fast, check out the Banshee Scirocco (build out ~25lbs-35lbs).