Can O Worms

[2wheel_lee]

Oh good! Another one of these cans has been opened.

And this may be the first I won't make a comment.

...or at least about my opinion regarding Share or WS or their event.

[doublewide]

Damn!! This is a bigass can you opened up CPAT!



shitty

[maxwell]

Originally Posted by doublewide

Damn!! This is a bigass can you opened up CPAT!



shitty

Hey, you...... [FONT=Arial Black]Hatefilled Hillbilly hopped up on goofballs[/FONT]

what're you do'in on here? This is one of them XC discusions!

[LBmtb]

I don't really have an opinion one way or the other because I just don't know enough abut the whole situation but it's obvious that a lot of other people have opinions which is great and even better that it's being communicated. Like some have pointed out it seems the most effective place to direct a lot of these concerns is the Forestry Service. Here's their public affairs link: http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/about/pa-staff.html

As far as this thread . . . just be sure to keep this thread on topic, don't personally attack anybody, and back up what you say with some shred of evidence. Solid communication on important issues is never a bad thing. Luckily STR is hear to let voices be heard - but don't abuse it.

[maxwell]

Originally Posted by Cowgirl

We should all put our heads together and take all this effort in monitoring what everyone says on STR and write letters to the Forestry Service and your local congressman to get the answers....

Originally Posted by g.c.

Great idea!

Originally Posted by allison

Perhaps those unhappy with the situation should be contacting the forest service instead of just posting here?

Here's the hombre we have to thank for this mess...

William Metz, Forest Supervisor (effective approx. 10/01/07)
Forest Staff Officers (85 674-2901

Let's all give him a call.

Hey Godfather, Shitty and I are friend's, I'm just messing with him.

[LBmtb]

Originally Posted by maxwell

Hey Godfather, Shitty and I are friend's, I'm just messing with him.

puhlabra If anything I just wanted to encourage productive discussion.

[doublewide]

Originally Posted by maxwell

Hey, you...... [FONT=Arial Black]Hatefilled Hillbilly hopped up on goofballs[/FONT]

what're you do'in on here? This is one of them XC discusions!

I'm sorry, I'll move along now.



shitty

[Cowgirl]

Originally Posted by g.c.

Just a point of serious clarification, because the truth is muddy:

The WS non-profit status is that of a political organization (think Republican Party, Democratic Party, Green Party etc), not of a "non-profit" in the truest sense of the word (do good and shut your mouth). SHARE/IMBA are non-profits which is why they take no political stances, endorce no candidates nor push an agenda other than mtn biking.

The WS, at its core, is a political organization both in leadership and in the never ending diatribes that fill the email lists' inboxes. If they had a true 501(c)3 status, which they don't, they wouldn't be able to endorse political positions, war agendas, candidates, immigration bills etc and then would be taxed, as some churches have recently become after criticizing the President or war effort.

Please don't confuse the two when you donate via time, money or ride fees. If you give them your money, you are furthering their agenda. If you like the agenda, give all you want. If you like to ride and don't care about the politics, find someone else to hold and use your funds.

I don't think a political organization of any type has any business using the forest if the rest of us can't. Sure, they donate time, but so have many of us. So has the Sierra Club (of which I have no affiliation). So has NAXJA, of which I do have affiliation. Etc, etc, etc.

I write that as a Jeeper, mtn biker, hiker, backpacker and explorer.

Grant and others,

There seems to be a question as to whether WS is non-profit or not....we are NOT a non-profit organization...what is posted at the bottom of the emails and weekly news is:

"The Warrior's Society is a Tax Exempt Organization under 501 (c) 4 of the IRS Code"


We do not have a 501 (c) 3 status (like stated by g.c.) it is a 501 (c) 4 status...big difference.


This is from the tax code: 501(c)(4)

501(c)(4) exemptions are given to civic leagues or organizations not organized for profit but operated exclusively for the promotion of social welfare, or local associations of employees, the membership of which is limited to the employees of a designated person or persons in a particular municipality, and the net earnings of which are devoted exclusively to charitable, educational, or recreational purposes.[6] 501(c)(4) organizations differ from 501(c)(3) in that they are permitted to lobby for legislation.
The exemption applies so long as "...no part of the net earnings of such entity inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual."[7]

We are a tax exempt organization.


Reasons for this: Non-profit organizations are not allowed to be involved in political activities, support candidates or oppose legislation.

We are a tax exempt organization so we can be involved in campaigns that would affect our access. Truth be told our political activity has been successful in keeping access open in the Cleveland National Forest when wilderness designations or forced plan policies had been proposed that would have restricted mountain bike access.


This should help clear the "muddy" truth.

[Big Guy]

If it's closed, it's closed. Sorry about that.

There should not be any exception other than a group of volunteers going to repair or maintain.

They should change the route, I am surprised the the WS insist on using the closed area. I think it sends a mix signal to other special interest groups that could use it against mountain bikers. It makes it harder to fight for our access rights when they have something to rub in our face.


And Thank you to Maxwell, and all the volunteers who have spent countless hours at Oaks after the fire. Without their help, it would still be closed.

[soul rider]

tax exempt, F **k politics yada yada yada.
on any given weekend are there even 300 riders riding around that section of the Santa Anas? perhaps, but all on the same course?
IMO I think that 300 riders all following the same trail might be worse than 300 spread out on trails that never intersect

[Endo Verendo]

Originally Posted by soul rider

tax exempt, F **k politics yada yada yada.
on any given weekend are there even 300 riders riding around that section of the Santa Anas? perhaps, but all on the same course?
IMO I think that 300 riders all following the same trail might be worse than 300 spread out on trails that never intersect

I'm sorry but did I miss something? I thought the VQ route was on trails that were not touched by the fire? Not that dirt burns anyway.. IMO (and from what I've read), bikes help keep the trails from becoming loose and vulnerable to erosion.

I doubt that many riders have that much of an impact.

[slowSSer]

Originally Posted by Endo Verendo

I'm sorry but did I miss something? I thought the VQ route was on trails that were not touched by the fire? Not that dirt burns anyway.. IMO (and from what I've read), bikes help keep the trails from becoming loose and vulnerable to erosion.

I doubt that many riders have that much of an impact.

there was something about motorway being bulldozed as a fire break??? (or did i miss something as well???)

[andy aka rut]

Wow what a hot debate! I'm going to stay pretty quiet on this except for....

It seems most of the uproar is from X-Warriors Society members. For one reason or another they left. I don't want to open that can.

Thanks to Maxwell and Wrecker for voicing your opinions. I agree whole heartedly.


United we stand
Divided we fall

[CPATCRASH]

Originally Posted by andy aka rut

Wow what a hot debate! I'm going to stay pretty quiet on this except for....

It seems most of the uproar is from X-Warriors Society members. For one reason or another they left. I don't want to open that can.

Thanks to Maxwell and Wrecker for voicing your opinions. I agree whole heartedly.


United we stand
Divided we fall

Andy. It has nothing to do with the Warriors Society. To me if the forest it's closed then it's closed for everyone. No exceptions.

[soul rider]

300 "paying" customers can ride that day, but the rest of can't.
i'm not saying that,that many riders will destroy the trail. it's that the trails are closed to prevent more problems, burned or not, as deemed by the forrest service. the same trails on a non-event day don't see that kind of traffic.
i have to work on my bike
peace

[mtnbikej]

Originally Posted by Wrecker

By you fingering SHARE in what has come as a questioned act, you are further segregating us in the us vs. them battle.

Rachel

I was not singling out SHARE, I was merely pointing out that as a group, were allowed into a closed area that the rest of the public was not.