Can O Worms

[Ladd Jasper]

Originally Posted by Cowgirl

I just confirmed with the Forestry Service that the route run for the VQ is not going thru any areas that were burned...when riding up Maple Springs and across the Main Divide you will not be riding near anything on either side of the road that was burned...the only area that was damaged on the course was from a bull dozer on the the bottom of the Motorway...once again we will not be riding thru a fire area.

Could just be me, but sure seems wires are getting crossed somewhere. Why is any of the route--other than the Motorway--closed, then?

Not that Craig was implying otherwise, but you definitely don't want your first experience on this section to come on race day.

Hopefully some sort of pre-ride will still be made possible.

[Pain Freak]

Once again....

If the route that is to be rode has not burned then what's the problem with letting people on it?

[ThinkFast]

Originally Posted by Pain Freak

Once again....

If the route that is to be rode has not burned then what's the problem with letting people on it?

If the trails between Maple Springs, the Main Divide and Harding are toast then the reasoning for the closure may be valid.

If the Main Divide is open is it likely many of the trails that are burned would be ridden also, even if they are closed? Is the instability of the hillsides now that there is nothing holding rocks and debris from randomly sliding posing a threat to these trails that may be ridden? Will this threat increase with rain in the coming months?

It's a bummer that such a large area is closed but we do still have everything south of the peak to ride. Which in my opinion is the better half of the mountain.

Let's just hope things aren't as bad as they seem and everything opens sooner.

[CPATCRASH]

Originally Posted by Pain Freak

Once again....

If the route that is to be rode has not burned then what's the problem with letting people on it?

If it's closed then it should be closed to everyone. In this case it will be open to the ones who paid. That isn't right. If it's OK for a few hundred people to race on then it should just be open to all people.

[g.c.]

Originally Posted by allison

Warrior's Society (non profit org, right?).

Just a point of serious clarification, because the truth is muddy:

The WS non-profit status is that of a political organization (think Republican Party, Democratic Party, Green Party etc), not of a "non-profit" in the truest sense of the word (do good and shut your mouth). SHARE/IMBA are non-profits which is why they take no political stances, endorce no candidates nor push an agenda other than mtn biking.

The WS, at its core, is a political organization both in leadership and in the never ending diatribes that fill the email lists' inboxes. If they had a true 501(c)3 status, which they don't, they wouldn't be able to endorse political positions, war agendas, candidates, immigration bills etc and then would be taxed, as some churches have recently become after criticizing the President or war effort.

Please don't confuse the two when you donate via time, money or ride fees. If you give them your money, you are furthering their agenda. If you like the agenda, give all you want. If you like to ride and don't care about the politics, find someone else to hold and use your funds.

I don't think a political organization of any type has any business using the forest if the rest of us can't. Sure, they donate time, but so have many of us. So has the Sierra Club (of which I have no affiliation). So has NAXJA, of which I do have affiliation. Etc, etc, etc.

I write that as a Jeeper, mtn biker, hiker, backpacker and explorer.

[g.c.]

Originally Posted by Cowgirl

I just confirmed with the Forestry Service that the route run for the VQ is not going thru any areas that were burned...when riding up Maple Springs and across the Main Divide you will not be riding near anything on either side of the road that was burned...the only area that was damaged on the course was from a bull dozer on the the bottom of the Motorway...once again we will not be riding thru a fire area.

Sherry, are those areas closed to other users at this time and at the time of the race...er timed event (you can't have a race on public lands, don'tcha know)?

Sounds like we are starting the "Wilderness" debate all over again. Hello, is this 1997? Is this thing on?

I want access; why should one group be so esteemed that I can't use it as well? That is the basis of ALL of the WS mantra, isn't it?

[mtnbikej]

Originally Posted by g.c.

Sherry, are those areas closed to other users at this time and at the time of the race...er timed event (you can't have a race on public lands, don'tcha know)?

Sounds like we are starting the "Wilderness" debate all over again. Hello, is this 1997? Is this thing on?

I want access; why should one group be so esteemed that I can't use it as well? That is the basis of ALL of the WS mantra, isn't it?

As I recall, members of SHARE were riding in areas of Santiago Oaks shortly after the fire "PATROLING" . However the rest of the public was not allowed to ride those areas? Where was the rage and outcry then? Heck, Maxwell was the first one to post pictures from Chutes.

Somewhere along the line, this became a You vs. Them. We all need to take a step back and chill out.

[genusmtbkr5]

Originally Posted by mtnbikej

Somewhere along the line, this became a You vs. Them. We all need to take a step back and chill out.

I've been monitoring this thread all day and I think it's a healthy debate, but I totally agree, it has been a "You vs Them" thing.

[DISCO]

I have given my body and soul to the mountains you all claim a right to. My sweat and blood are mixed in the ashes. I have slaked the thirst of thousands who have dared to scale the peaks. My motive has never been profit, I just wanted to. I sit now and sharpen my hatchet to prepare for battle; soon it will be buried in gnarled growth. If anyone would do me the honor of bearing it for me, I could concentrate on the loppers….

[g.c.]

Originally Posted by mtnbikej

As I recall, members of SHARE were riding in areas of Santiago Oaks shortly after the fire "PATROLING" . However the rest of the public was not allowed to ride those areas? Where was the rage and outcry then? Heck, Maxwell was the first one to post pictures from Chutes.

Somewhere along the line, this became a You vs. Them. We all need to take a step back and chill out.

Jeff, actually, I wasn't part of SHARE when the fires happened, so my arguments stand.

My point is, if you are going to hold a major event in the closed forest, all should have access.

Please address that point.

[CPATCRASH]

Originally Posted by mtnbikej

As I recall, members of SHARE were riding in areas of Santiago Oaks shortly after the fire "PATROLING" . However the rest of the public was not allowed to ride those areas? Where was the rage and outcry then? Heck, Maxwell was the first one to post pictures from Chutes.

Somewhere along the line, this became a You vs. Them. We all need to take a step back and chill out.

Your going to have to ask the rangers at Oaks about that. They asked SHARE and we helped. One or two people riding isn't a race with hundreds of bikes/cars/motorcycles either.

[Padre]

Originally Posted by CPATCRASH

The trails they ran were not in the closed areas. I also heard that they also left crap all over the place and didn't clean up when they left.

Not much "crap," but at least 100 pieces of caution tape tied to trees as markers, and a few of their signs still stuck in ground. This was first hand confirmed as of last Friday. Not too classy.

[maxwell]

Originally Posted by mtnbikej

As I recall, members of SHARE were riding in areas of Santiago Oaks shortly after the fire "PATROLING" . However the rest of the public was not allowed to ride those areas? Where was the rage and outcry then? Heck, Maxwell was the first one to post pictures from Chutes.

Somewhere along the line, this became a You vs. Them. We all need to take a step back and chill out.

Share needed help, and the rangers at Oaks gave me a little yellow vest to wear, so, you're right, I was there, and I was the first to post pics of Waterfall, not Chutes. I took the pics after hiking up to ask some hikers to come down. I did ride the fireroads into Weir, and around the neighborhoods, and around to any other entrances that had tape taken down. I never rode any of the single track, because that was what I was asked to keep people out of.
I did this for a week. And I got some grief for it.
We put up trail signs, and a little bit after, the park re-opened. A little after that, more trails opened.
A little after that, we had the Bikes and Beers ride, and even changed our usual route to keep riders off of the trails that were closed.

I have friend's who are still in the WS, and I have friends who are SHARE members.

I am not against anyone.

I am for the forrest being open to everyone that helps maintain it.

And Disco,
how the heck did you get blisters on your toes from sharpening your hatchet?

Enough of this MTBR crap.

Let's get back to being STR

[Schecky]

I would just like to make sure that tunnel makers/seismologists aren't being allowed into the burned/closed/special access area.

[Wrecker]

Originally Posted by mtnbikej

As I recall, members of SHARE were riding in areas of Santiago Oaks shortly after the fire "PATROLING" . However the rest of the public was not allowed to ride those areas? Where was the rage and outcry then? Heck, Maxwell was the first one to post pictures from Chutes.

Somewhere along the line, this became a You vs. Them. We all need to take a step back and chill out.

Not to beat a dead horse, but the difference between SHARE and Warriors stems beyond their non-profit status. ANYONE is allowed to join SHARE at ANYTIME and they are all welcome to volunteer as needed (and we all know there is a great need) As I recall, there were also horseback patrols.

By you fingering SHARE in what has come as a questioned act, you are further segregating us in the us vs. them battle.

Personally, I think we can all speculate (as I know I have) as to the rationale behind the forestry service and we can all argue on here with regards to it, but what comes of it?

This is a battle and arguement that needs to be brought up to the forest service. If you don't agree with them, become active in the meetings (I know some of you are, Maxwell and Sherry, SHARE members). You can not biatch if you are complacent in the decision making process--DO SOMETHING!!!

Let's stand by each other in resolving this, not draw a line and weaken ourselves, the mtn biker.

For the record, I am not, nor have I ever been a Warrior's member, but I will NOT hesitate to work alongside them to better the trails. I will not hesitate to ride with someone that carries his own tools to do work as needed and lend a hand, Warrior or not. And, I will not hesitate to voice my opinion, cause I'm biatchy like that (plus, I'm not on the board of SHARE, so I can)
After all, you can always chose to "ignore" me