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dirtmistress · 11-15-2007, 03:14 PM

Can some of you tell me the difference's between the VPP and the 4-bar link?
How do each work to eat bumps and which is more popular? I assume popular is better.
Do either have recorded problems or unwanted noises that make you crazy?
What are the pro's and con's of each? I will be researching articles but I also want and respect individual input.
I am 140 and 5'4" and I purchased my last bike 7 years ago. I am Xc and I am outta the knowledge loop when it comes to equiptment so I will be asking the occasional 'please inform me' questions. I look forward to input,debate and advice.
Thanks very much Ladies and Gentlemen

Pho'dUp · 11-15-2007, 03:21 PM

Wow, I'm just waiting for this thread to explode!

My short take is that climbing wise, lots of these designs all perform pretty well with the development of platform rear shock technology. Its still holds true, that if you pedal in smooth circles whatever bike you ride will be more efficient and work better. I've haven't tried a Intense/SC VPP but I hear those are great if you're more of a masher on the pedals as those designs really get firmer with more chain tension.

I've had Horst linke 4-bar bikes, Faux bar bikes, and Giant Maestro VPP and they all worked really good. But lots of times it's not entirely the design, also how well the bike designer executes the design. I'm more sensitive to how steep the head angle of the bike is.

You gotta just demo some stuff.

TURNERob · 11-15-2007, 03:23 PM

Depends on if it is a Horst Link 4 bar or not. I want a bike that is more plush descending and where the suspension remains active under hard braking. VPP and the DW link remain active under braking also. There are lots of suspension designs out there and many of them mimic the Horst Link design. Which one is better? You'll probably get a hundred different opinions on it. If you can, test ride different bikes on the dirt and see which one you like best.

el_d00der1n0 · 11-15-2007, 03:23 PM

Is DW-Link another category here?

TURNERob · 11-15-2007, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by el_d00der1n0

Is DW-Link another category here?

It should be

Pho'dUp · 11-15-2007, 03:29 PM

Another wrinkle to think about is maintenance. Some bikes just seem to burn through bearings/bushings faster than others.

For me, the Konas (Faux-bar) I've had have been pretty bullet proof.

BrewMaster · 11-15-2007, 03:29 PM

Dino should be here shortly to extol the virtues of the DW-link as executed by Iron Horse.

This should be good.

Pho'dUp · 11-15-2007, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrewMaster

Dino should be here shortly to extol the virtues of the DW-link as executed by Iron Horse.

This should be good.

That's what I'm waiting for.

GP_pilot · 11-15-2007, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrewMaster

Dino should be here shortly to extol the virtues of the DW-link as executed by Iron Horse.

This should be good.

Jumbo supersize please...

ODB · 11-15-2007, 03:59 PM

Much like purple ano, URTs (unified rear triangle) are coming back big-time:

Trust me on this. I wouldn't steer you wrong.

Oh, and elastomers instead of air or coil shocks.

dirtmistress · 11-15-2007, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TURNERob

Depends on if it is a Horst Link 4 bar or not. I want a bike that is more plush descending and where the suspension remains active under hard braking. VPP and the DW link remain active under braking also. There are lots of suspension designs out there and many of them mimic the Horst Link design. Which one is better? You'll probably get a hundred different opinions on it. If you can, test ride different bikes on the dirt and see which one you like best.

Ok. So 4-bar is made by different companys. I think I am interested in the 4-bar that Ellsworth makes. There is a bike out there that has that rear end on it that I am considering. So I guess it's the Intense VPP vs. the ellsworth design.

stjunkie · 11-15-2007, 04:06 PM

Forget about all this "four-bar" "Dw-Link" "VPP" crap. The most important thing about a good climbing or good decending bike is the color. As long as it's a color you like, you will be faster uphill and downhill.

TURNERob · 11-15-2007, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtmistress

Ok. So 4-bar is made by different companys. I think I am interested in the 4-bar that Ellsworth makes. There is a bike out there that has that rear end on it that I am considering. So I guess it's the Intense VPP vs. the ellsworth design.

You lost me with Ellsworth

DownhillWebKook · 11-15-2007, 04:16 PM

Ask yourself why Honda would go with a single pivot out of ANY possible choice for suspension. They had so much focus put into those bikes from having the best riders on the planet testing them in World Cup races to the finest suspension engineers on the planet working on the thing. And, they ended up with a Mountain Cycle Shockwave? Hmm...

dirtmistress · 11-15-2007, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TURNERob

You lost me with Ellsworth

Why?

guero · 11-15-2007, 04:16 PM

i like how the faux bar of my kona feels, right nam?

Evil Chocula · 11-15-2007, 04:23 PM

What I know: MY Chumba XCL has a 4 bar Horst Link, and it rocks.
What I don't know: Anything else about suspension.

TURNERob · 11-15-2007, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtmistress

Why?

It's because all Turner owners hate Ellworths (long story). Good ole Horst Link suspension, but beware of cracking frames and poor customer service. What year and model are you looking at?

rmb socal · 11-15-2007, 04:24 PM

Read this post by Noel Buckley, President of Knolly bikes. I think he kind of nailed it with this. Its about 1/2 way down the page and it was posted by Jason.W

http://bb.nsmb.com/showthread.php?t=93773&page=3

Don't buy into all the hype and marketing of all the different brands. I think your overall fit and bike geometry makes much more a difference then where your rear axel is traveling throughout its stroke. Ride a bunch of different bikes and see what works for you!

tkblazer · 11-15-2007, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guero

i like how the faux bar of my kona feels, right nam?

11-15-2007, 03:23 PM	#4 (permalink)
el_d00der1n0 STR Veteran	Is DW-Link another category here? __________________ My Blog

11-15-2007, 03:29 PM	#7 (permalink)
BrewMaster Thirsty	Dino should be here shortly to extol the virtues of the DW-link as executed by Iron Horse. This should be good. __________________ “Very few are meant for a life of notoriety, yet all of us are meant for a life of significance." Erwin McManus, Wide Awake

11-15-2007, 03:59 PM	#10 (permalink)
ODB Team Sting-Ray	Forget about VPP and four-bar ... Much like purple ano, URTs (unified rear triangle) are coming back big-time: Trust me on this. I wouldn't steer you wrong. Oh, and elastomers instead of air or coil shocks.

11-15-2007, 04:16 PM	#14 (permalink)
DownhillWebKook l'homme plus	Single pivot of all things... Ask yourself why Honda would go with a single pivot out of ANY possible choice for suspension. They had so much focus put into those bikes from having the best riders on the planet testing them in World Cup races to the finest suspension engineers on the planet working on the thing. And, they ended up with a Mountain Cycle Shockwave? Hmm... __________________ Downhill Web Kook Git sum!

11-15-2007, 04:16 PM	#16 (permalink)
guero thats hot.	i like how the faux bar of my kona feels, right nam? __________________ i <3 nachos

11-15-2007, 03:14 PM	#1 (permalink)
dirtmistress	VPP vs. 4-Bar Link Can some of you tell me the difference's between the VPP and the 4-bar link? How do each work to eat bumps and which is more popular? I assume popular is better. Do either have recorded problems or unwanted noises that make you crazy? What are the pro's and con's of each? I will be researching articles but I also want and respect individual input. I am 140 and 5'4" and I purchased my last bike 7 years ago. I am Xc and I am outta the knowledge loop when it comes to equiptment so I will be asking the occasional 'please inform me' questions. I look forward to input,debate and advice. Thanks very much Ladies and Gentlemen __________________ http://www.bichonsandbuddies.com/ Shannon; "You see the problem is that God gave men a brain and a penis...but only enough blood to run one at a time". Last edited by dirtmistress; 11-15-2007 at 03:15 PM. Reason: gosh, forgot to say thanks for helping me!

11-15-2007, 03:21 PM	#2 (permalink)
Pho'dUp Ghetto Swan Lake	Wow, I'm just waiting for this thread to explode! My short take is that climbing wise, lots of these designs all perform pretty well with the development of platform rear shock technology. Its still holds true, that if you pedal in smooth circles whatever bike you ride will be more efficient and work better. I've haven't tried a Intense/SC VPP but I hear those are great if you're more of a masher on the pedals as those designs really get firmer with more chain tension. I've had Horst linke 4-bar bikes, Faux bar bikes, and Giant Maestro VPP and they all worked really good. But lots of times it's not entirely the design, also how well the bike designer executes the design. I'm more sensitive to how steep the head angle of the bike is. You gotta just demo some stuff.

11-15-2007, 03:23 PM	#3 (permalink)
TURNERob I need a tow truck ASAP	Depends on if it is a Horst Link 4 bar or not. I want a bike that is more plush descending and where the suspension remains active under hard braking. VPP and the DW link remain active under braking also. There are lots of suspension designs out there and many of them mimic the Horst Link design. Which one is better? You'll probably get a hundred different opinions on it. If you can, test ride different bikes on the dirt and see which one you like best.

11-15-2007, 03:29 PM	#6 (permalink)
Pho'dUp Ghetto Swan Lake	Another wrinkle to think about is maintenance. Some bikes just seem to burn through bearings/bushings faster than others. For me, the Konas (Faux-bar) I've had have been pretty bullet proof.

11-15-2007, 04:06 PM	#12 (permalink)
stjunkie Senior Member	Forget about all this "four-bar" "Dw-Link" "VPP" crap. The most important thing about a good climbing or good decending bike is the color. As long as it's a color you like, you will be faster uphill and downhill.

11-15-2007, 04:23 PM	#17 (permalink)
Evil Chocula MCs call me sire.	What I know: MY Chumba XCL has a 4 bar Horst Link, and it rocks. What I don't know: Anything else about suspension. __________________ And my straw reaches acroooooooss the room, and starts to drink your milkshake... I... drink... your... milkshake!

11-15-2007, 04:24 PM	#19 (permalink)
rmb socal Canadian by employment	Read this post by Noel Buckley, President of Knolly bikes. I think he kind of nailed it with this. Its about 1/2 way down the page and it was posted by Jason.W http://bb.nsmb.com/showthread.php?t=93773&page=3 Don't buy into all the hype and marketing of all the different brands. I think your overall fit and bike geometry makes much more a difference then where your rear axel is traveling throughout its stroke. Ride a bunch of different bikes and see what works for you!

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